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AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
March 28, 1989  10:00 p.m. Eastern time
Pippin Auditorium
Topic:  A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E Magazines
Forum Leader:  James Luther (AFL Jim) 

AppleLink  Welcome to the Pippin auditorium and the Apple II Development
	   Forum.
AppleLink  Tonight, we have guests from two magazines that cater to the
	   development
AppleLink  community, A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E.
AFL Jim    From A2-Central, we have Tom Weishaar and Dennis Doms.
AFL Jim    Say hello, Tom and Dennis.
ADV Guest2 Hello!
AFL Jim    (Tom Weishaar = ADV Guest2)
DennisDoms ...hello also.
AFL Jim    From Call-A.P.P.L.E., we have Kathryn Suther and Cecil Fretwell.
AFL Jim    Good to have you two, also!
CecilFret  Howdy
KSUTHER    hi
AFL Jim    Here's a little information about the auditorium and how it
	   works...
AppleLink  The Pippin (@) Auditorium is one of four areas for
           "big-name" events on AppleLink. The large capacity room
           allows you to attend the festivities with hundreds of other
           AppleLink members.
AppleLink  During our event tonight, you'll see a number on the
           top left hand side of your screen, reflecting the
           number of onstage participants--guests and hosts.
           The number in the upper right tells you how many
           people are in the audience.
AppleLink  We welcome and encourage any questions and
           comments you may have during the course of
           tonight's Apple extravaganza. However, to
           keep the event running smoothly, we've
           disabled the Chat line at the bottom of your
           screen.
AppleLink  To send your questions, select the "Ask A Question"
           option on the "Auditorium" menu, write your comment
           and send it! At an appropriate moment in the
           conversation, we will broadcast your questions for
           our guest speakers.
AFL Jim    Now that we have that out of the way, I'd like to ask you all what
	   your
AFL Jim    magazines have to offer developers. Let's start with Tom.
ADV Guest2 A2-Central is an 8-page monthly newsletter...
ADV Guest2 We're probably not as programming oriented as Call Apple is...
ADV Guest2 anymore. We do cover some programming questions, but we also cover
	   a lot...
ADV Guest2 of AppleWorks stuff, general IIgs questions, and bugs, service
	   notes, news,...
ADV Guest2 and so on. The biggest Developer Centered thing we have is a
	   Developers Conf..
ADV Guest2 Conference just for Apple II people, which will be held at Avila
	   College...
ADV Guest2 in Kansas City this summer--July 21 and 22.  GA
AFL Jim    Hmmm... I know I'll be at that, Tom!
AFL Jim    Kathryn, as editor of Call-A.P.P.L.E., what would you say the
	   focus of your
AFL Jim    magazine is?
KSUTHER    We focus our attention on helping developers and programmers. The
	   programs
KSUTHER    we publish can serve as skeleton for develpers to modify and use
	   in their own 
KSUTHER    work. We are trying to incorporate many different languages and
	   programming
KSUTHER    environments: from BASIC to C.
KSUTHER    We also have a special service our consultants who can help people
	   with 
KSUTHER    programming problems. They are available by phone and online.
KSUTHER    ga
AFL Jim    OK, my next question while we get ready for questions from the
	   audience is...
AFL Jim    What do you look for in submissions to your publications and how
	   do you submit
AFL Jim    articles?
KSUTHER    We look for technical articles, well written and submitted both on
	   disk
KSUTHER    and with hard copy. Hard copy is important for fomatting tables,
	   etc.
KSUTHER    We are open to topics ranging from languages to hardware related
	   issues.
AFL Jim    Tom, how about A2-Central?
ADV Guest2 We've never published an article that just came in. We've
ADV Guest2 comissioned one or two, and we publish a number of letters
ADV Guest2 from readers every month. If someone has something good,
ADV Guest2 however (and SHORT), I'd be interested in seeing it. When
ADV Guest2 we do take something from authors, our pay is competitive
ADV Guest2 with the magazines.
AFL Jim    Thanks!
AFL Jim    We'll start taking questions from the audience now.
AFL Jim    Gary has the first question from BillP...
Question   So...   one at a time....    What do you all see for the future of
	   the Apple II line?
ADV Guest2 I see the future of the Apple II line extending off into
ADV Guest2 the future. I think we'll see more companys making clones
ADV Guest2 now that the Laser--Apple suit has been settled in Laser's
ADV Guest2 favor. And I think Apple will continue to make incremental
ADV Guest2 improvements to the IIgs and Apple II peripherals. GA
AFL Jim    Kathryn, what's the view from up in Washington?
KSUTHER    I too agree that the II will be here for some time. Why these
	   rumors start
KSUTHER    is really beyond me. People are dedicated to these machines. Even
	   if Apple
KSUTHER    left it, we'd still be here. I don't see this happening, myself.
AFL Jim    Our next question is from BillP again...
Question   Is your advertising directed more towards programmers too?
AFL Jim    Kathryn, why don't you start...
KSUTHER    I think programmers tools and resources, hardware do better in our
	   magazine
KSUTHER    We've never been much with games for example so advertisers avoid
	   us there.
ADV Guest2 We don't actually have any advertising, however, we do have
ADV Guest2 a monthly catalog of products that we sell to subscribers...
ADV Guest2 That has a lot of development-related products in it, such
ADV Guest2 as the Addison-Wesley Apple II Reference Manuals, Merlin
ADV Guest2 16-Plus, Micol Basic, and more. GA
KSUTHER    Call is also trying to include the programming utilities and books
	   our readers
AFL Jim    I believe you have something like that too, don
AFL Jim    't you Cecil?
KSUTHER    need in our catalog. We feel it is a service we can provide. It's
	   getting
KSUTHER    better, still has a ways to go.
CecilFret  Don't forget we are a co-op and started out as the A.P.P.L.E.
	   Co-op
CecilFret  We still are a co-op via Techalliance and have advertisement of
	   co-op in
CecilFret  center fold
AFL Jim    Marty Knight would like you to comment on this...
Question   I'd like to hear your comments about the 'demise' of A+
	   magazine.
DennisDoms It may be a minor "shakeout"; companies jockeying for a market
	   that they...
DennisDoms have a more direct interest in (by "companies" I mean the parent
	   publisher)...
DennisDoms I think that we'll have to wait and see what the "merged" issues
	   bring; if..
DennisDoms elements of both magazines are combined it may actually be a
	   positive... 
DennisDoms development (more info in a more "robust" issue). GA
KSUTHER    I think the cost of producing magazines and the competing
	   advertising market$%
KSUTHER    has a lot to do with it. Perhaps like Dennis said, it may work out
	   for
KSUTHER    the best, combining the two together.
AFL Jim    Our next question is from A Gibber F...
Question   We can thank MacWeak for a scare to the Apple // community...
	   However how do you view
Question   Apple's committment to the Apple // line.. Do you see only
	   superficial changes or Major changes
Question   as New technology comes out?
AFL Jim    Kathryn, could you start?
ADV Guest2 Apple has said over and over that they intend to make
ADV Guest2 "incremental improvments" to the Apple II family. That's
ADV Guest2 what I expect we'll see. I don't think they're lying. GA
KSUTHER    I agree. I don't think Apple would keep hiring such talented
	   people
CecilFret  I agree with Tom (I don't take MAC Week).  If anything, the IIgs
	   will grow...
KSUTHER    for the II development side, if they were going to stand still!
CecilFret  There is always teh possibility Apple will drop the IIe then the
	   IIc then
CecilFret  move on up in the IIgs.  It is a fact of life in a world where
	   technology
CecilFret  is growing at a fantastice rate
DennisDoms I think you also have to consider that magazines for other
	   computers...
DennisDoms are not always "sensitive" to other users...we've been accused of
	   an...
DennisDoms anti-Mac bias, which may be because of our enthusiasm from the II.
	   It may...
DennisDoms be wise to temper reaction and see how Apple responds in terms of
	   products...
ADV Guest2 (Then again, it may be because of some of our cartoons :))
CecilFret  Good point, Dennis
DennisDoms it's difficult, though, since such reports may actually
	   _influence_ what...
DennisDoms they describe. Fortunately, they don't run Apple!!! GA
AFL Jim    hehe, Tom... Our next question comes from Takeyabu...
Question   Is there still room in the app;e development market for the
	   part-time enthusiast who works
Question   at a non-computer related job and just dabbles a little or is it
	   all too sophisticated for that
Question   now?
KSUTHER    We have a developers channel that is set up to help developers
	   with the
KSUTHER    writing of documentation, the production side etc. And evaluation
	   of the 
KSUTHER    product. It might be something you'd like to look into.
CecilFret  One problem always is competition.  The part-time enthusiast
	   stands just as...
CecilFret  good a chance as anyone.  I have a good friend who is president of
	   a company
CecilFret  yet has found time to develop a good package.  You just have to be
	   in the righ
CecilFret  place at the right time.  Yes I think the part-time developer has
	   as good a
CecilFret  chance as anyone else.
ADV Guest2 How important is it to make money at it? If you're satisfied
ADV Guest2 with glory, I'd start by writing public domain stuff, get it
ADV Guest2 online and make a name for yourself. Then do some shareware...
ADV Guest2 With a name, you have a better chance of getting a regular
ADV Guest2 publisher to pick up your work. GA
DennisDoms If you look at the history, a lot of innovative programs are
	   witten by...
DennisDoms "nonprofessionals"...if it's somethin you enjoy, go for it; maybe
	   you'll...
DennisDoms think of a revolutionary approach, like VisiCalc was when it
	   arrived.
CecilFret  TOm makes some really good points regarding starting with public
	   domain.
CecilFret  That is certainly one route.  The other route is to publish
	   articles.
CecilFret  I wrote a bunch and Call -A.P.P.L.E> rejected a bunch.  Once we
	   got to know
AFL Jim    (or do both :)
CecilFret  each other, the final result was my being technical editor.  The
	   key is 
CecilFret  establishing a name
AFL Jim    OK, our next question is from BillP again...
DennisDoms Something else that is important is to know the importance of
	   "small" but...
DennisDoms critical tips. A bug report or a "quickie" program that gets
	   published...
DennisDoms may break open a critical problem for someone else.
AFL Jim    OK, we'll get Bill's question now...
Question   Maybe this into personal reasons but...  why did you choose to
	   have a more techincal
Question   format rather then alot of game reviews and goop?
ADV Guest2 We're just combining what we do well with something that
ADV Guest2 makes a living. It's fun, and we like it, and it feeds the
ADV Guest2 kids.
ADV Guest2 I don't think a novice-level newsletter would do as well
ADV Guest2 because it costs SO much to get new subscribers and because
KSUTHER    Call -A.P.P.L.E. started in 1978 publishing technical information
	   that
ADV Guest2 most novices I've met aren't interested in paying what it
ADV Guest2 costs for novice-type information.
ADV Guest2 GA
KSUTHER    Sorry Tom. Since we started in 78 we have returned to our roots.
KSUTHER    I worked with people from 1980 on, Cecil and Ken Kashmarek.
	   These
KSUTHER    folks kept up with the technical movement. We feel that was our
	   niche and 
KSUTHER    should continue to be our focus. It is fun, exciting and
	   rewarding.GA
CecilFret  By our own admission, we are more toward the technical side. 
	   There is still...
CecilFret  still a good sized audience of readers who want the technical
	   stuff.
CecilFret  Technical types are still needed to iron out the gorry details of
	   the internals
CecilFret  of a system.  We try to cover that niche.  A2-Central does a
	   fantastic
CecilFret  job of also filling some of that gap.  If I have a tough question
	   to answer,
CecilFret  I head for A2 Central.  IT rarely fails me.
AFL Jim    Our next question tonight is from NW Man...
ADV Guest2 (Thank you, Cecil.)
Question   Which magazenes steer toward Apple hardwar development?
ADV Guest2 There aren't any.
DennisDoms I wish there were!
AFL Jim    Kathryn, are you planning on doing any more hardware articles?
CecilFret  Hardware development is so complex anymore, it takes a team not an
	   individual
KSUTHER    Peter and Allen Baum had a series for a while. I don't think it
	   was geared
KSUTHER    toward hardware development; but it did answer questions people
	   had.
KSUTHER    Allen will be returning with an article on RISC in the near
	   future. We hope
KSUTHER    to encourage more from him in the future. Also we are looking to
	   have a 
KSUTHER    regular hardware column. So, perhaps some day.GA
AFL Jim    OK, the next question is from Takeyabu....
Question   Has having a IIGS hurt the Apple publishers by creating a market
	   for the IIGS crowd and
Question   another audience for the IIe and IIc both wanting more for their
	   machine and less for the other?
ADV Guest2 We don't really get too many complains about our split of
ADV Guest2 coverage. Oh, sometimes I overdo one or the other, but most
ADV Guest2 readers seem intereted in both. After all, all the IIe/IIc
ADV Guest2 stuff works on the IIgs, and most IIe/IIc people want to know
ADV Guest2 how the IIgs works too.
ADV Guest2 GA
KSUTHER    We've had problems with our IIe and IIc folks. Obviously our
	   coverage
KSUTHER    leans towards the GS. It's just we've been around for 10 years.
	   We've
KSUTHER    published most of the tips and want to be putting out the new
	   technical\
KSUTHER    information people can't get elsewhere. Eventually, we hope to
	   increase
KSUTHER    our pages and supply our IIe and IIc folks with more information
	   also.
KSUTHER    Helps to have advertisers aide us in this quest.GA
CecilFret  Ok, we welcome articles on the IIe, IIc, etc.  Most of the
	   articles we receive
CecilFret  are on the IIgs.  So if you have an idea for an article on the
	   Standard II
CecilFret  (before IIgs) send it to us and we will take a look at it. 
	   Believe it or
CecilFret  not the standard II people are screaming for articles.
AFL Jim    I think we're going to head over to the Apple II Development
	   Forum's
AFL Jim    conference room now that our hour here is up. Thanks for coming
	   tonight and
AFL Jim    I hope to see you over there in a minute. To get there, type
	   Open-Apple-K, then
AFL Jim    the keyword ADV and select conference room on the menu.
AFL Jim    Thanks for coming tonight, Cecil, Tom, Dennis and Kathryn!!
AFL Jim    This is fun!
CecilFret  Good night, my pleasure.  I had fun.
AFA Gary J Thank you, A2-Central and Call-A.P.P.L.E.!!
KSUTHER    Yeah. I think I know where the dollar sign is now. Thanks
CecilFret  Are we done, I am headed over to the AII place
AFL Jim    See you threre...


AFL Jim    Hi again!
AFL Vince  Howdy Jim
CecilFret  I'm here
AFL Dyfet  Hello.
ShrinkIt   hi dave!
AFL Jim    It looks like Richard Williams from Nibble had trouble with the
	   phone company
AFL Dyfet  Oh dear...
AFL Jim    tonight. He was waitin for a line to get hooked up.
AFL Vince  Wondered what happened to them..
AFC Mark   Hi, Kathryn...
KSUTHER    Hi Mark. Good to see you. I wanted to tell Tom about talking you
	   into
KSUTHER    writing for Call. 
DennisDoms Hi.. haven't picked up my mail yet. :)
ADV Guest2 How did you do that, KS?? I thought we OWNED Mark. Shoot.
AFL Jim    Tom, is this srange being a guest here?
CecilFret  Dennis, you got the airfield picked out yet?
AFL Jim    strange
AFC Mark   Bang.   (Perhaps not owned... but a good solid Lease!  B-)
KSUTHER    Tom, you have a way with publishing great stuff at the right time.
	   I
DennisDoms How about an expedition to one of the
DennisDoms "extravagant" hotels? :)
KSUTHER    suppose you  have plans for icons too like us? Ah, I love your
	   work and
KSUTHER    don't feel in competition. Pat on the back for you!:)
ADV Guest2 You can have icons all to yourself for now.
CecilFret  I agree with Kathryn Tom.  I truly do use you a lot of times when
	   I get into
CecilFret  trouble on an article.
ADV Guest2 Jim, not so strange. Remarkably similar to our system, now that
	   I've seen
Matt DTS   I have this article on how the GS/OS Cache works, and I need to
	   find a publisher for it someday soon.
KSUTHER    Well, I'll have to nudge Mark again, right Mark?
ADV Guest2 it.  But I miss /nam :)
CecilFret  Go for it MAtt
AFC Mark   huh...   B-)
DennisDoms Matt! Were you in the audience?
Matt DTS   I was.  Why?
KSUTHER    Matt, I was wondering when you'd jump on the bandwagon? Let's take
	   a look.
AFL Jim    That's in the Customer Service area, Tom...
DennisDoms  Can I ask about the Apple Tech Tidbits that says slot 5 is
	   preferred...
DennisDoms for the SCSI interface on a IIgs? :)
AFL Jim    I figured Dennis would show you that (some assistance _I_ get :)
Matt DTS   "Preferred" = "only slot that allows four partitions under ProDOS
	   8"
ADV Guest2 Nah, Dennis didn't show me nuttin.
AFL Jim    Good job, Dennis :-}
DennisDoms Now that would make sense, actually. But wat do you do when
	   you...
CecilFret  I got a CMS hard drive.  Plugging the interface card into Slot 5
	   would sort of
AFL Dyfet  To think, he'll be my problem soon :)
CecilFret  mess things up wouldn't it?
DennisDoms have to load software (which comes on...all together now?)?
Matt DTS   3.5" disks?
CecilFret  Like collide with me 3.5" and 5.25" drives?  Never did understand
	   the smart port
DennisDoms :)
Matt DTS   If P8 finds a SmartPort interface in slot 5 with more than two
	   units, it will...
Matt DTS   ...shadow the third and fourth units to slot 2, drives 1 and 2.
Matt DTS   It doesn't *care* whether this is the IIgs internal SmartPort
	   (with more than 2 3.5" drives)...
Matt DTS   ...or the SCSI card with more than two partitions or devices.
ADV Guest2 Matt, I think what we're getting it is why doesn't P8 do that for
	   slots...
DennisDoms GS/OS will handle multiple partitions in slot 7, though; will
	   anyone...
ShrinkIt   what if there's a fifth unit?  does it just dissappear?
ADV Guest2 6 and 7, too???
Matt DTS   If you want more than 2 partitions, slot 5 is the only place to
	   put it to get to them from P8.
DennisDoms need more than 64 megs for their 8-bit stuff?
Matt DTS   Any units beyond the fourth just vanish under P8.
CecilFret  Gotta run folks.  Must take wife for a walk.
ShrinkIt   rats... 
Matt DTS   References:  IIgs Firmware Reference, ProDOS 8 Tech Notes #20 and
	   #21.
AFL Vince  night, Cecil
AFL Jim    Bye and thanks, Cecil!
AFL Dyfet  Gnight Cecil, thanks for comming...
DennisDoms I read the notes last night, Matt. Good job!
CecilFret  Any time Jim.  YOu here too Vince.  Good show on disk stuff
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Cecil!
AFL Jim    (Matt's working on Tech Notes again tonight...)
DennisDoms 'Night, Cecil.
Matt DTS   You're welcome (or thanks, which ever is appropriate).
AFL Dyfet  Naturally...he works best while on-line...
AFL Dyfet  :)
AFL Jim    probably not...
ADV Guest2 Matt, any chance we'll see P8 enhanced to provide 4 units on slots
	   6 and 7?
ShrinkIt   So, when is this 'KansasFest' thing?  How much is it?  Where is
	   it?  
DennisDoms I've thought about patching ProDOS 8 (ducking...)...
ShrinkIt   zoom, over dennis' head... :)
Matt DTS   That would mean shadowing extra drives to slots 1 and 3 or 4.  4
	   is often used by pascal users...
AFL Jim    Andy, there's a press release in the Forum Business category on
	   the Conference.
ADV Guest2 Kansas City. July 21-22. $300 (before June 1). Includes meals and
	   free dorm
AFL Marty  (that's like rewriting the Bible :)
Matt DTS   ...3 interferes with /RAM, and a certain well-known integrated
	   WP/SS/DB program for 128K Apple IIs...
ADV Guest2 accommodations. All the great Apple II developers will be
	   there!!!
Matt DTS   ....doesn't like devices shadowed to slot 1.
AFL Dyfet  I'm very tempted to go for this event myself...
ShrinkIt   Dorm?  Like roommate type dorm?
AFL Jim    It's actually close to you, Dave.
AFL Dyfet  Very true.
AFC Mark   Matt... while you're on the subject... is there a reason why
	   Applelink chews...
ShrinkIt   You mean I might get to room with matt?  heh... ;)
AFC Mark   Make that Appletalk!  OOPS...
DennisDoms The WP/SS/DB can be patched (doesn't follow Apple protocol).
ADV Guest2 Ah ha. Thank you Matt. Obviously, the idea has come up before.
AFL Dyfet  It's a very cheap air fair from Chicago...
AFL Vince  I'm running my Sider in slot 1 since 7 has Appletalk in it...
	   works great with everything so far
AFC Mark   runs out of 7 instead of 1?
ADV Guest2 Like bathroom down the hall dorm. Hotels also available starting
	   at $33/night.
AFL Dyfet  And I would have the chance to meet some of the people here...
AFL Vince  no, runs out of 1.. :)
DennisDoms Vince: you had trouble with interrupts and term programs (w/AT)?
AFL Jim    As long as your card doesn't use the screen holes, it'll work OK
	   in the slot
AFL Vince  Dennis, no... works fine with Proterm, and Alink...  I've found no
	   problems as long as you're carefull
AFL Jim    used for AppleTalk.
AFL Vince  with P8 printer drivers.. :)
AFL Jim    (slot 1 or 2)
DennisDoms Dave - weren't yo on the trolley in SF (Applefest, 1987)?
DennisDoms Proterm drops characters on me...hmmm. Maybe something else,
	   then.
AFL Dyfet  Why does everyone ask that?
AFL Jim    Were you????
DennisDoms I tried the Apple II workstation card in the IIgs, but that was a
	   problem.
DennisDoms :)
AFL Dyfet  No, actually...
AFL Vince  Dennis.. I havent managed to get hold of one yet... :(
AFL Jim    I was %-}
AFL Dyfet  I have a couple of the cards here...
AFL Jim    (and I remember very little of it)
AFL Vince  You using them, Dave? 
DennisDoms I was hoping to use the WS card in 1 and not have to tie up 7 and
	   1/2.
AFL Dyfet  Haven't used them for much except testing AppleTalk stuff on
	   //e's...
Matt DTS   Gotta run, gang - "
Matt DTS   "The Wonder Years" is almost on and I'm not home yet.
DennisDoms 'Night, Matt.
AFL Jim    See you tomorrow, Matt
AFL Dyfet  At one time I was thinking of doing some Appleshare utilities...
ADV Guest2 I've already seen it. Wanna know the ending Matt?
KSUTHER    Bye Matt. I'll bug you soon.
Matt DTS   G'night.
ADV Guest2 Ah, the wonders of time zones.
KSUTHER    Thanks and I Vince!
DennisDoms Two problems with card. One is the RFI toroids won't fit (easily)
	   through..
DennisDoms the IIgs case shielding. The other is software, but that's
	   inconclusive...
DennisDoms so far (I need to set it up again and test).
AFL Vince  Dennis, why bother using one on the GS?  The GS has Appletalk
	   already...
ADV Guest2 slots...slots...slots
AFL Jim    Dennis, put an Apple SCSI in slot one or two and then you don't
	   waste the slot.
ADV Guest2 Jim, are you saying the Apple SCSI doesn't use the screenholes?
	   What about
DennisDoms Slot 1 (which much software expects). Jim, I may not be using a
	   SCSI card... 
ADV Guest2 the AppleWorks printer contention problem Matt just mentioned?
AFL Vince  Jim..  I've never tried putting the SCSI in 1 with Appletalk on...
	   It will work with any card that
AFL Vince  does not use the screen holes..
DennisDoms in slot 7 (I'm not using an Apple card now.).
AFL Jim    I use my Apple SCSI in slot one all the time (and I use
	   AppleWriter :)
KSUTHER    Geez haven't you moved up to Zardax yet?
AFL Vince  ah... good to know it works!
DennisDoms I've used the SCSI drive at home I/F'ed to 2, but that is a
	   kludge, frankly.
AFL Jim    I need to find out if Chinook's card uses the screen holes.
AFL Vince  No telling... they dropped production..
AFL Jim    Chris would know, though...
AFL Vince  they ship the Apple card now, or at least offer it as an option.
ShrinkIt   Does anyone here have a Transwarp GS yet?  Is it worth getting?
AFL Scott  Parik..
AFA Gary J Parik does  :)
AFL Jim    Tim Swihart says it is, Andy...
ShrinkIt   (no, don't say a word, parik)
ADV Guest2 It's been fun, gang. Thanks for inviting me, Jim. Gotta go.
AFL Vince  Andy..  I watched a GS with one work on the same document as a Mac
	   with MacWrite, side by side, and
AFL Vince  the GS w/Transwarp won!
AFL Jim    Bye Tom! See you this summer!
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Tom.  Nice having you on.
KSUTHER    Bye Tom!
AFL Scott  Alright!!!!
AFL Dyfet  Night Tom.  Hope to see you in summer...
AFL Jim    MacWrite isn't a good comparison, though... it is slow.
AFL Vince  true... :)
AFL Vince  but so is AWGS.. :)
AFL Jim    hmmm... Claris....
ShrinkIt   it won using AWGS?  the TWGS really *IS* fast!  wow...
AFL Vince  Andy... I'm withholding judgement until I see IF a new GS is
	   actually coming in May, but the one I saw
AFL Vince  in action convinced me!
AFA Gary J Parik?  (He must be in mail...otherwise he would have jumped all
	   over the
ShrinkIt   Nothing is coming in May... not a new cpu anyway... as far as
	   anyone knows...
AFA Gary J chance to comment on TWGS :)
AFL Vince  does he have one now?
AFA Parik  its great
AFL Dyfet  I was about to ask what happened to Parambo :)
ShrinkIt   ok, parik, spill it.. :)
AFA Parik  whats there to say, its great!!!!  i loveit!!  :)
AFA Parik  I was using fastext with it today, the output is faster thanthe
	   prosel 16 
AFA Parik  shell!
AFA Gary J Does it speed up AppleLink??  :)
AFA Parik  don't know, i use this gs for applelink.  it makes your little
	   windows in
AFA Parik  finder not show up (those little grey boxes that always are
	   opening and closing
AFA Parik  and its pretty good.  I was using the orca desktop, WOW.  Scrolls
	   fast, no
AFL Vince  (hmm... instant jump option appears to be in.. :)
AFA Parik  waits, etc.  good stuff.  I *LOVE* the bootup screen of the
	   transwarp, it shows
AFL Dyfet  That feature can be turned off on the Mac finder (exploding
	   boxes...)  (hint
AFL Dyfet  to somebody)
AFA Parik  a graphics screen with the words "Transwarp GS" scroll in, do some
	   nifty stuff
AFA Parik  and then run out in full 16 colors.  Its also got a sound of a
	   digitized
AFA Parik  airplane (?) powering up.  AE JOhnS wrote all the firmware.
AFA Parik  32k of ROM.  wow
AFL Dyfet  I WANT ONE :)
ShrinkIt   I WANT ONE, TOO :)
AFL Jim    Just think, Parik. You've probably already saved that 20
	   minutes...
AFL Jim    in CPU time
AFA Parik  :)  saved a lot more.  a green light on the board is on when the
	   cache is being
ShrinkIt   Parik, do you have merlin Plus?  did you try that on the TWGS yet?
	   how fast?
AFC Mark   Easy way to do that...  Boot AWGS... twice!
AFA Parik  used, so its fun to watch it flicker when programs switch between
	   firmware and 
AFA Parik  ram.  its very fast Andy, link's programs in a few seconds.  
ShrinkIt   Like how many seconds?  1?
AFA Parik  yup.  of course, its a 10 line program.  :)
AFL Jim    I major project, Parik? :)
AFA Parik  But seriously, it speeds up everything basically 2-3 times.  The
	   book has a
ShrinkIt   I wonder how fast it would link ShrinkIT 2.0?  It takes 11 seconds
	   now...sheesh
AFA Parik  programmers appendix which tells you how to mess around with it.
ShrinkIt   what's to mess with?
AFA Parik  Its entry points are contained in bank $BC, wonder whats the
	   significance. 
AFA Parik  You can change the speed settings, etc.
AFL Vince  Anyone work with Merlin 16+ yet?  Is it worth another $45 for the
	   third update in two years?
AFL Dyfet  As if Merlin 16+ wasn't fast enough already...
ShrinkIt   yes, it's worth it.  It blows everything else away by a mile.
AFL Dyfet  It's NOT an update!
AFL Dyfet  It's a whole new product, and it's truelly wonderful.
AFL Vince  Upgrade then... semantics... :)
AFA Parik  I like Orca myself, more used to the editor.  :(  haven't tried
	   replacing 
AFA Parik  editors yet, have you andy?
ShrinkIt   yes
AFA Parik  and?
ShrinkIt   yeah, I used to use randy brandt's rose editor... I need a new
	   version, there
ShrinkIt   are some strange things wrong with 0.45...
AFA Gary J I'm going to send for the new Merlin 16+, but haven't yet.
ShrinkIt   Do it, you'll never forgive yourself if you don't get it.
AFL Vince  Think I'll go ahead too, Gary.. :)
AFL Jim    Do they offer upgrades from Merlin Pro (old 8 bit)?
ShrinkIt   Vince, merlin 816 links shrinkit 1.1 off my HD in 37 seconds.
	   Merlin+ takes 11.
AFA Gary J Hmmm.... the flyer I got doesn't mention Merlin Pro.
AFL Vince  Jim, $45 is the Upgrade fee... must have a serial number, and have
	   returned your card..
AFL Dyfet  They might give upgrade pricing that far back, I don't know
	   Jim...
AFL Jim    I'll have to ask Roger.
AFL Vince  Dont know if it works for the older verison though.
ShrinkIt   The editor is alot faster, too.. as is the assembler..
AFA Gary J It was $60 for upgrade from OLD Merlin to Merlin 8/16.
AFA Parik  You're a nice guy Jim, i'm sure he'll refuse.
ShrinkIt   Yes, it does work for the older version.
AFL Jim    hehehe
AFA Gary J (OLD was pre- Merlin Pro)
ShrinkIt   in that case, I'm not sure...
AFL Jim    I started with Merlin, then I got Merlin Pro. I stopped there and
	   switched to
AFL Jim    ORCA.
AFA Gary J One thing I wish Roger Wagner would do is update the Merlin
	   manual.  Merlin 16+
AFL Vince  I've been using Orca, but the desktop system seems to crash a lot
	   on me..
AFA Parik  don't inhale too many herbs
ShrinkIt   EVERYONE HERE WHO USES ORCA, GET FASTEXT!!
AFA Gary J just comes with an update booklet.
AFA Parik  and apw andy.
ShrinkIt   (It speeds up the text toolkit speed by abut 100%)
AFA Parik  Do you have it on ROMdisk Vince?
AFL Vince  Parik, no, I dont use a ROM disk or a RAM disk.
AFA Parik  Also make sure you're using the latest version (1.1b or something
	   like that),
AFA Parik  I used the older version and it would crash into m/l on bootup
	   periodically.
AFL Vince  with over 100 megs of HD space, why bother?
ShrinkIt   what's the difference between 1.1a and 1.1b?
AFA Parik  be-cuz its fassstttt....:)
AFL Jim    one works, the other???
AFA Parik  bug fixes and GS/OS macros.
AFA Gary J (I have 62 megs of HD space and still boot from a ROM disk)
ShrinkIt   what bug fixes?  why didn't I get some sort of notice in the mail?
	   hmmmmm...
AFA Parik  Hi GSTeach!
AFL Vince  I've got 1.1b and if your program has a minor bug, or if you
	   havent figured out memory management yet,
AFA Parik  I didn't either Andy, I called Mike up.
GSTEACH    YO!  Howdy folks!
AFL Vince  it will almost always crash..
AFA Parik  after a while the desktop gets to be a pain, esp if you write
	   buggy code (like
AFA Parik  me :).  Its faster using the shell. 
AFL Jim    I use the shell, because I like it :)
AFA Gary J The shell IS nice.
ShrinkIt   I use the shell because it's easy to replace the slow parts with
	   fast ones..
ShrinkIt   (like the editor, linker, etc)
AFL Vince  I like to cut and paste routines, so the desktop made that nice,
	   however, the giveaway doesnt seem
AFL Vince  to be worth it.
AFA Parik  You can still cut & paste from editor.
AFL Vince  its not as nice though, parik.. :)
AFL Jim    I'd like a better editor, but I haven't really seen one I like
	   yet.
ShrinkIt   One of the ed's I have can do it between multiple files at once...
	   like the
ShrinkIt   desktop
AFL Jim    EMacs?
AFL Vince  that's what I need, Andy..
AFL Jim    or Rose 16?
ShrinkIt   No, a thing Jason Blochowiak (the author of gs/make) wrote, the
	   Hurricane Ed...
ShrinkIt   It's very fast... pull-downs, the works.  You can have, switch
	   between, edit,
AFA Parik  It whips your code into shape...
ShrinkIt   and cut & paste between up to 8 files in memory at once...