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449 lines
19 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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May 2, 1989 10:00 p.m. eastern time
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Topic: BASIC Programming
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFA Gary J I know that Marty is hot on BASIC. I know he wouldn't miss this
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topic :)
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AFL Marty BASIC!
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AFL Dyfet Hello Joe :)
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AFL Marty Gee... are we gonna talk about QuickBasic? :)
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AFA Gary J Hi Joe.
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JSchober Hi, Dave, Gary!
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AFL Dyfet No, Bbasic Marty :)
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JSchober Let's rant and rave about BBASIC //... :)
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AFL Dyfet Yeah :)
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AFL Dyfet Hi Parik :)
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AFL Marty BBASIC?
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JSchober Hi, Parik.
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AFA Parik hi
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AFA Gary J Sounds good to me.
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AFA Gary J Hi Parik.
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JSchober Blankenship Basic, Marty. Dave co-wrote it. NIFTY set of
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additions to ASoft.
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AFL Dyfet Bbasic //...closest you will come to QuickBasic on an Apple, Marty
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:)
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JSchober I like 'em. I use 'em for many things... (NOT EBBS, tho -- not
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enough mem!)
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AFL Marty Okay... yes, I'm familiar with it (sort of)
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JSchober Dave was nice enough to send it to me for no extra charge...
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good... since I
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JSchober have no extra money. :)
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AFL Dyfet Hello Edward.
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JSchober So how many of you are going to AFest?? And who's gonna bring me
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a present??;)
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JSchober Hi, Ed!
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AFL Marty Dave, is BBasic a compiled Basic (I've forgotten)?
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EdwardF4 Hello!
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JSchober Nope, Marty.
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AFL Marty I'll being you something Joe (if you're nice)
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JSchober It just patches into ASoft... adds graphics, utility, etc.
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commands.
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AFL Dyfet No, interpreted, Marty...damn fast because it precompiles line
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references,
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JSchober I'm always nice... to everyone but you, that is. :P :)
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EdwardF4 I'm going to AFest. What do you want? Lobster?
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AFL Dyfet though :). Has named subroutines, overlays, and fully
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structured...
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JSchober No, a GS+. :) (Or a TWGS will do...)
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JSchober Yeah... the labels are terrific!!
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AFL Marty That's too bad Joe. I was gonna get you HyperStudio, but
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nevermind now :)
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AFA Parik I want all the paper you get from AppleFest
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JSchober Sheesh. figures, Marty.. (siiiigh)
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AFL Marty Do you still have the demo available Dave?
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AFA Gary J I'll take it, Marty :)
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EdwardF4 I'm definitely getting HyperStudio.
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AFL Dyfet It should be around here somewhere (the demo)...I forget which
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forum it was
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JSchober ::sulking::
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AFL Dyfet originally uploaded to :)
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JSchober Dave... this thing on my desk is a DEMO?? ... I can't
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imagine what the
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JSchober REAL THING is, then!!!!!
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JSchober Yo Scott!
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AFL Scott Yo, Everyone... AFK..
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AFL Dyfet The difference between the Demo version of Bbasic and the live
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version is that
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AFL Dyfet you cannot edit programs with the demo. You can give it aways as
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a runtime
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AFL Marty What's the price on BBasic, Dave?
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AFL Dyfet module, though :)
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AFL Dyfet $49.95+$5.00 shipping.
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JSchober That's it?? I guess I've got the live thing. I LIKE it, too. :)
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(THANKS!,
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JSchober Dave! :))
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JSchober Hi, Keebo.
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AFL Dyfet Hello Keebo, Scott.
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KEEBO Hello, I'm gonna keep quiet. I'm not a developer by any means.
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AFL Marty Okay... what differences are there between BBasic and AppleSoft?
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JSchober Uhhh... want me to read the manual, or just rant and rave at
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random? :)
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EdwardF4 I'm not a developer, either. But some day, when I grow up...
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AFL Scott <--Underdeveloped
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JSchober ;) Scott
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AFL Dyfet Bbasic adds some 50 commands to AppleSoft Basic, including
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structured
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AFL Dyfet programming loops (like while-wend stuff, repeat-until, etc),
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named subprogram
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JSchober (It makes it easyPascal, ok?? :)
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AFL Scott <---Whoops... Underdevelopment.
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AFL Dyfet modules that can be called, disk overlay modules (in addition to
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conventional
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AFL Dyfet chaining), an advanced new file system in place of 'Basic.System'
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that gives
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AFL Dyfet you full control, hires text, special graphics stuff, and a lot of
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new
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AFL Dyfet string functions.
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AFL Dyfet In Bbasic //, all the commands are integrated directly into
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Applesoft.
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AFL Dyfet No wierd flaky &syntax's to remember :)
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JSchober (no &'s!! YAY!!!)
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AFL Marty That sounds pretty neat. Structured programming and all...
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JSchober It all makes sense, really. CIRCLE h,v,color,arc. Stuff like
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that. VERY NICE
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AFL Dyfet The BBASIC list command also does automatic program indentention
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and it has a
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AFL Dyfet line editor and other hand-holding things :)
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AFL Dyfet Anything I left out Joe? :)
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AFL Marty What kind of fees do you require for the run-time module?
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AFL Dyfet Hello Mark. Welcome aboard.
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AFA Gary J Hi Mark
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JSchober LOL... I don't think so; not other than the specific commands and
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whatnot. but
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AFL Dyfet No fee for distributing runtime.
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JSchober it's a NIFTY development system -- it has all the things that
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AppleSoft ...
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MarkLC Hello all...what's the topic?
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JSchober should've had in the first place. It's also extremely fast...
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JSchober Fast. Fast fast. :) Mark, we're ranting and raving about
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Blankenship BASIC,
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JSchober (BBASIC). :) Hi, Mike!
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AFL Dyfet Hello Nuzz, welcome aboard.
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AFL Marty Where do I send my money?
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AFL Marty <-- software collector ;)
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AFL Dyfet One of two places, Marty...either HyperDyne Software, PO BOX
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60664-1156,
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AFL Dyfet Chicago, Il. 60664-1156 (make that PO BOX 641156 :), or to
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BlankenShip &
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AFL Dyfet Assoc., PO Box 47934, Atlanta, GA. 30362.
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AFL Dyfet Hello Matt :)
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AFL Marty Great! Thanks Dave!
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AFL Dyfet No problem, I can use the money :).
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AFL Dyfet Hi, Twolfe1
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Twolfe1 Hello, what's the topic?
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JSchober We're... uhh... ranting and raving. :) Just relax; only Marty
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bites.
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AFL Dyfet Well, as Joe said...:). Tonight's topic here is Basic, Twolfe1,
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though this
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Twolfe1 thanks, I'm always here, just not visable.
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AFL Dyfet chat is rather informal tonight, so feel free to speak up...
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MarkLC anything?
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JSchober Anything, sure. :)
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JSchober Anything on BASIC, that is.
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AFL Dyfet We can take it :)
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AFL Marty Micol Basic?
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AFA Gary J Doesn't have to be BASIC at this rate :)
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JSchober Shoot... :) <tho I know nothing about it, Marty>
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AFL Dyfet True...tonight is informal...
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AFL Marty I hear they're coming out with a new version for the //e.
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AFL Marty version 3.0
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AFL Dyfet Micol?
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AFL Marty yep
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AFL Dyfet I've spoken to those people a couple of times in the past...a
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little odd in
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AFL Dyfet some ways :)
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JSchober They must be Apple programmers indeed, if they're odd. :)
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AFL Marty Seems like a fair assessment :)
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AFL Dyfet I remember when they tried getting their own ProDOS 16 load file
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standard
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AFL Dyfet accepted.
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Nuzz I have a question.. In converting a DOS program to ProDos, the
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HIMEM command
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AFL Marty Anyhow...
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AFA Parik They're canadian. :)
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AFL Marty I'm a beta tester :)
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Nuzz failed HIMEM:28761
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AFL Marty GA with Nuzz's question... I'll wait.
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JSchober Mike... HIMEM under BASIC.SYSTEM =must= be divisible by 256...
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(ie., it must
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JSchober rest on a page boundary.)
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JSchober Shift it down as needed. :)
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AFA Gary J ...or up.
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JSchober 28762 will do.
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Nuzz Ah, well then, that's it
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JSchober No, that can't be right...typo. Hold.
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JSchober 28672 will do. :)
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JSchober Well, Gary, if something BLOAD's right to the edge of HIMEM,
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moving it up is
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JSchober kinda bad... :(
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AFA Gary J Depends on how much memory you have to play with.
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JSchober Well, if you're BLOADing non-relocatable m/l code, you CAN'T move
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it up...
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JSchober unless you have the source, of course...
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Nuzz It was 28671 so that's pretty darn close
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AFA Gary J True
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JSchober I thought you said 28761, no? Well, whatever it is, just make it
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rest on a
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JSchober page boundary and you're ok. :)
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Nuzz I made a mistake too :) 28671 it was
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JSchober LOL
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JSchober Anyone have an & or CALL routine that left or right justifies a
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string??
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AFL Dyfet For printing?
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JSchober Yeah. I currently use ? LEFT$(STRING$+"<lotsa
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spaces!>",field_length), but
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JSchober all those spaces eat memory. :(
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AFL Dyfet Well, Bbasic II does have a formatted 'output' command :)...
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JSchober ;) I know that, but EBBS is too tight on RAM to use BBasic. :(
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Marty Why don't you use SPC ()?
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JSchober I wish I COULD... Marty: you can't use SPC() in a
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concatenation... unlike
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JSchober almost every other BASIC. :(
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JSchober It's a function, but it doesn't act like one...
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JSchober (whatever THAT means)
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AFL Dyfet How about printint with TAB()?
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AFL Marty There must be some work-around.
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JSchober TAB()?? well, TAB or SPC() is the same... it WOULD work, but then
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you'd need
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JSchober a ? STRING$SPC(field_length-LEN(STRING$)) type thing, which isn't
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too much
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AFL Dyfet I'm not sure if tab is implimented correctly in Applesoft, but in
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theory,
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AFA Gary J But you could do ? STRING$;SPC( )
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JSchober better than the other way. I want something TIGHT.
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AFL Marty Buy more memory :)
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JSchober Doesn't help; Applesoft only has a 36K or so core.
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AFL Dyfet you should be able to print string$;tab(field);string$;tab(start
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of next field)
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JSchober TAB to a column?? Nope. :(
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AFL Marty (that;s Claris' colution :)
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...in every other basic I use that's what TAB does...
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JSchober That only worked under Integer %) BASIC.
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JSchober Hmmm. Actually, I just looked at the infamous "A Touch of
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AppleSoft", and it
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JSchober SAYS the same thing that you say. But it doesn't WORK for me. :(
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Does TAB()
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JSchober use the Z-page htab location??
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AFL Dyfet It might...
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AFL Dyfet It does need to know your current print position, after all...
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JSchober Hmmm. I MIGHT have a z-page conflict. I'll have to look into
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that... (if I
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JSchober DO, I should shoot myself!)
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AFA Gary J I just tried it on my //e, Joe. It works for me.
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JSchober Really?? HMMMM. I'll take a look. That could help immensely if
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it works.
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JSchober But I'd bet all of my $4.14 that I tried that, and it didn't...
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:|
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AFA Gary J I've had some situations where tab wouldn't do what I wanted, but
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I don't
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AFA Gary J recall the specifics.
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AFL Scott (I wonder if Joey get's an allowance?)
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JSchober No, Scott. hmmmm, Gary. I wonder if they'll have any info on
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this in the
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JSchober Tech Reference library here on ALPE...
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AFA Gary J I think the problems I had were related to 3rd party 80-column
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firmware.
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AFL Marty Don't shoot yourself... let me do it :)
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JSchober :P Marty. Well, I'm using the GS... that should be Apple
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compatible. :)
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AFL Scott ROTFL!!!:)
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AFL Dyfet Never do to yourself what someone else is willing to do for you?
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JSchober But I'll take a look, and see if I can get it to work. Thanks for
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the hint,
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JSchober Dave and Gary. :)
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Nuzz Can I ask a non basic question
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JSchober Hi, Dave!
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AFL Dyfet Sure Nuzz, go ahead.
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AFL Dyfet Hi Dave!
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Dave Lyons I've been looking over Matt's shoulder, but I thought I'd prove I
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actually exist (at least as much
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Nuzz Is there a tool call that will allow for inverting text in a
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window.
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Matt DTS There's Dave "Niftier than what??" Lyons...
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Dave Lyons as I existed before, anyway).
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JSchober LOL
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Dave Lyons Inverting text in a window?
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Nuzz ALA a word proc.
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Dave Lyons Yeah, and there's Matt "You about done?" Deatherage.
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JSchober Uhhh... selecting stuff, you mean. Hmmm...
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Nuzz right Joe
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Dave Lyons If you want to make a rectangular area inversed, use InvertRect.
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For a more complicated shape,
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Dave Lyons InvertRgn will come in more handy.
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Dave Lyons Anybody want a warped mousepad? I have 2. (Actually I can't give
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them away, but feel free to
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Dave Lyons tell me how to unwarp them.)
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AFA Parik wash 'em
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DaviesDoug rub cheese on em'
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JSchober Put a dictionary on 'em overnight... (or maybe a fat mouse)
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AFA Parik it shrunk one of mine down and it turned it into a coffee holder
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AFL Dyfet You into heavy handed mousing, Dave?
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JSchober LOL
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Nuzz Use a big mouse on them
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Dave Lyons Oh, how 'bout Inside Mac I-III? I've got one of those....
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AFA Parik grab the Information Exchange
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JSchober That'll do... :)
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AFL Dyfet I knew it! He's being conditioned to program for the Mac!
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JSchober Ugh... :(
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AFA Gary J Oh no!
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AFL Dyfet It starts with the books...subliminal stuff in the margins...
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AFA Gary J All the rumors are true!
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AFA Parik ack
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AFL Dyfet Next he will have AppleShare up...
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AFA Gary J Coming soon.... "Nifty McList"
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JSchober And then.. the Apple II will be replaced by a Mac II. Chaos from
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there on. :(
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JSchober LOL Gary
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AFL Scott Floppies, Parik?
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AFA Gary J ...or is it McNifty List?
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AFA Parik ;)
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DaviesDoug it's McLifty Nist
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AFA Parik Mac The Nifty
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AFL Dyfet No words, Gary...just Icons for machine code instructions on a Mac
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desktop...:)
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JSchober Nah, Nifty McList sounds better. Just hit OA/Ctrl/ESC on the Mac,
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and up it
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AFA Gary J Ooooh.
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JSchober comes... (of course, not compatible with older Mac keyboards)
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AFA Parik nah, dave's a good II dude. He'd take any macs he gets and shred
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em.
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DaviesDoug (: alright, who turned my monitor on backwards?
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JSchober Parik's been watching Guts and Glory... :)
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AFA Parik (oh yeah, remember to get fawn hall as your secretary)
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JSchober LOL
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Dave Lyons Nope, no McNifty List yet, but I must admit I moved the source
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code over to MPW & used MPW IIgs
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AFA Parik MPW!?!?!?!
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JSchober UGHHH!!! :(((
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Dave Lyons assembler to build version 2.70p.
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JSchober And look at that... "no McNifty List **YET**"?!?!?! :(
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JSchober There was 2.6p, too, if memory serves... or 2.5p, or along those
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lines.
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Matt DTS Look at it this way - if Apple's going to throw a 16 MHz machine
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and lots of storage at Dave...
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AFL Marty ---===[} Dave
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Meathook I offer a service converting Mac into Fish tanks, If you're
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interested.
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JSchober LOL
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Matt DTS ...he might as well use it to build better Nifty Lists, dont'cha
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think? (any better ideas?)
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AFA Parik does it involve intense pain for the macintosh?
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AFL Marty How about paperweights?
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DaviesDoug sure couldn't use a IIGS
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AFL Marty or doorstops?
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AFL Dyfet Yeah, throw a 16mhz GS at him instead :)
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Dave Lyons Nope, 2.70p isn't available yet. One of these days I'll have time
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to polish it off into something
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JSchober YEAH!!! ()()()()()
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Dave Lyons nice. No fancy promised-for-3.0 features yet, either.
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DaviesDoug i'm impressed
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AFL Marty Macs make nice targets on the shooting range :)
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AFA Parik so it won't replicate money yet, huh
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JSchober It's already polished, Dave. Lookit that, those Macs are
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corrupting you
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AFL Marty (ready on the left... ready... pull!)
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JSchober already... they're UNPOLISHING YOUR PROGRAM!!!
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DaviesDoug Yah, the new debugger does a lot that Nifty List does now,
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yipeee!!!
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AFA Parik Hi pal!
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Paladin13 Wow! this place has really picked up?? Hello all.
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AFL Dyfet Hello Paladin.
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Dave Lyons Joe, there's still GOBS of room for improvement--I have a two-page
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to-do list, including stuff like
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Dave Lyons a command language for letting you do toolbox calls in real
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time.
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AFA Gary J Nice idea
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JSchober Wow, Dave. :) But... I thought that was 3.0. The Mac is still
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corrupting
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JSchober you. :(
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Dave Lyons Howdy, Paladin.
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DaviesDoug good
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Paladin13 Boy I've been a couple night up all night copying disks
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Paladin13 gota fix the last bug in my program though the printing had any
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luck
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AFA Parik :) which program Paladin?
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Paladin13 I just made an educational program about animals for kids
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Paladin13 Its called ANIMAL TRACKER
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Nuzz Speaking of printing... Has anyone come up witha way to set a page
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size smaller
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Paladin13 Dave any luck on my printing problem
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Paladin13 ?
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Nuzz than 11 in.
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JSchober I'm gonna run for tonight, folks... take care, all, and may your
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Macs shrivel
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JSchober up and die! :)
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AFA Parik :)
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AFL Dyfet Gnight Joe.
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Paladin13 Dave?
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AFL Dyfet I think Dave is busy raiding Matt's fridge :)_
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Matt DTS Dave's in here, not over there with his computer. (We're at work)
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Printing true (not QD) text?
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Dave Lyons Explain your prob again for everybody, Paladin...I don't have any
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breakthroughs for you.
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DaviesDoug fridge? matt?
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Dave Lyons Whoops, Matt will be right back....
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AFL Marty after these messages :)
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Dave Lyons Whoops, he was back before I even said it.
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Paladin13 Ok problem is
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Paladin13 at start up the printer will print the text fine I use the code
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very in
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Paladin13 TML pascal print a text file
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Paladin13 Works fine except after I print a graphic
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AFL Marty Bye all
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Dave Lyons Okay, when you say "...will print the text fine," how are you
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printing the text? Toolbox calls will
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Dave Lyons explain it to me best.
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Paladin13 Then Once I have printed a graphic I try to print text...And now
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it cannot
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Paladin13 print regular... I've tryed to reset the printer, Set it in a
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different mode
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Paladin13 just about everything
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Paladin13 Draft mode
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Paladin13 It prints in draft mode that is why it think it must have
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something
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DaviesDoug solution : don't print graphics :) wow, wonder if DTS would hire
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me?
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DaviesDoug nope, couldn't pay enough
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Paladin13 Uses the Texttools to initialize the printer port
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Dave Lyons We'd pay you in Hex addresses...$117745, etc.
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Paladin13 Boy alot of people on tonight A-link is really slow
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DaviesDoug that much, 1,144,645 per year, wow, maybe it would be worth giving
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up.....
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DaviesDoug $82,000 per year
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Paladin13 to do with the printrecord being set
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AFL Dyfet One catch, the money is not in decimal currency...:) and has a
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smiling WOZ
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Nuzz Maybe you could do both Doug
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AFL Dyfet on the bills :)
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DaviesDoug yah, I could fly to cupertion in the morning, and back to Orem at
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lunch time..
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Paladin13 It works fine but for some reason PrPixelMap is leaveing the
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printer
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Paladin13 in a state that is not draft or something wrong
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Paladin13 The correct information comes out it just doesn't line feed
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Paladin13 Any IDeas ??????
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Dave Lyons Paladin, do you have the Firmware Reference manual?
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Paladin13 <------Need to fix his problem so he can whip out 500 copies
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before friday
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Paladin13 IMPORTANT WORKS FINE ONLY AT START UP...
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Paladin13 Isn't there a field in the Printer record for line feed and draft
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modes???
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Dave Lyons Looking up some info in my Firmware ref, Paladin...may or may not
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help.
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Paladin13 Dave ...Matt ... Are you still with me?
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Paladin13 I have to get this fixed before applefest...Any suggestions.. I
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have to
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Paladin13 have to leave out that feature because of line feeds
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Dave Lyons Paladin, did you say that turning the printer off and on after
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printing graphics did not solve the
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Dave Lyons problem? (I think you did.)
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DaviesDoug acting.........
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Paladin13 Hate to have to leave that feature out
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Dave Lyons Try sending Ctrl-I L E to the printer port.
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Dave Lyons Be sure to do this only for a direct-connect port, though...don't
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go sending that to any driver that
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Dave Lyons happens to be selected.
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