mirror-textfiles.com/apple/ADC/adv.890620

AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
June 20, 1989  10:00 p.m. eastern time
Topic:  Open Discussion
Forum Leader:   Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)


AFL Dyfet  Well, as you all may know, tonight is 'open topic' night.  This
	means that,
AFL Dyfet  instead of me entertaining you, you get to entertain me :)
AFA Gary J You mean it hasn't been entertaining so far?
AFA Gary J :)
GET1       Serious question: All that extraneous toolbox pushing and pulling
	   aside. I'm 
GET1       trying to rewrite an old hurricane tracking program that I wrote
	   for the //e.
AFL Dyfet  Welcome aboard, Dave.  Continue Get1.
GET1       My problem is how do I "Plot" my little hurricane shapes on my map
	   without l
GET1       loosing my background if I "delete" them later?
GET1       Should I "plot" them as special windows or objects?
AE PhilM   Use regions.
AFL Dyfet  Anyone else wish to comment on this?
AE PhilM   You could probably set up a new graf port and draw you're map into
	   it.
AFL Dyfet  GA Dave.
AE PhilM   done
Dave Lyons We're talking about GS & QuickDraw II here, right?  If you set
GET1       Yes
Dave Lyons the PenMode to XOR, you can just draw the shape again in the
Dave Lyons same place to get rid of it.  Missed the first part of the
Dave Lyons discussion, so I dunno if I'm babbling.
AFL Dyfet  Very similar to XDRAWing in Applesoft.  Get1 was trying to convert
	   an old IIe
GET1       Sounds good, sort of like the old applesoft XDRAW command. But
	   will it work?
AFL Dyfet  hurricane plotting program, Dave.
Dave Lyons What format are the shapes in, or is that still up in the air?
AFL Dyfet  It should work mechanically the same.  Redraw the same object in
	   the same place
AFL Dyfet  and it will undraw it.
AE PhilM   Yes, but what format are the object in, Icons, Pictures, or just
	   line drawing?
GET1       I have them created as icons. Like the Apple Icon in HP.
AE PhilM   I don't think you can use XOR for Icons...is that right Dave?
Dave Lyons DrawIcon does *not* use the PenPattern, so there's no XOR
	   available there.  Right.
AFL Dyfet  GA Nuzz.
Nuzz       You could copy the Icon into a rectangle and work from there
AFL Scott  (Or a region :))
Nuzz       Right GA
AFL Dyfet  It seems we have come full circle :)
GET1       Sounds good. At this point it would be easy to convert from Icon
	   to Regeon. 
GET1       It wouldn's affect the code I have written so far.
Dave Lyons (*Regions* are just collections of points--there will be no color
	   available there.)
AE PhilM   Really, how do you convert an Icon into a region?
AE PhilM   Dave is right, a region is just a boundry to draw into...a clip
	   area.
GET1       No problem. All I need really is a HURRICANE shape (All B&W) :).
Dave Lyons It *isn't* easy to convert an icon into a region, as far as I
	   know.  5.0 may provide
Dave Lyons a way--I haven't paid enough attention to it...does CalcMask do
	   that?
Pirate14   Does anyone have any good code to access the control panel from
	   TMl Pascal?
AFA Gary J But what if he NEEDED color....what option would he have then?
GET1       I meant the Idea. I havent coded my Icon yet. This is still
	   "developmental"
Dave Lyons Using PPToPort with pixel maps should be fine; you can even
	   DrawIcon into an
Dave Lyons offscreen pixel map,  & just keep things stored as icons on
	   disk.
GET1       Pirate14---NO---Try ORCA Pascal.
GET1       Thanks everyone. You have given me some good Ideas to work with.
AFL Dyfet  Okay, I believe the next question is from Windrider.  GA
	   Windrider.
Windrider5 I am trying to Link a fairly large C program that I have compile,
	   but I get
Windrider5 the error message Outpur Buffer Overflow   Any suggestion on what
	   I might do?
AFL Dyfet  GA Phil.
AE PhilM   I wrote the APW linker...I have a version that might work for
	   you...how much
AE PhilM   memory do you have in you're computer?
Windrider5 1.25 Megabytes
AE PhilM   You will need to get more memory...the version I have will not
	   solve you're 
AE PhilM   problems.
AE PhilM   Sorry.  done
AFL Dyfet  GA Dave.
Dave Lyons You *are* getting the message during the link, right?
Windrider5 Yes
AE PhilM   Yes, that message only appears in the linker.  The assembler will
	   give a 
AE PhilM   generic out of memory error.
Dave Lyons I don't have any more info...sorry.
AE PhilM   Windrider, if you get more memory in you're machine the linker
	   will take 
AE PhilM   advantage of it...also Apple has redone thier C libraries and if
	   you get
AE PhilM   the new version they may be a little smarter and the object code
	   may be
AE PhilM   smaller.
AFL Dyfet  GA Coach.
Coach101   I got that message from time to time before I went up to 2.25
	   meg.
Coach101   One trick that seemed to help was to do a full system shutdown and
	   then
Coach101   go directly to APW and do the link immediately.  That seemed to
	   get me
AE PhilM   Yes, and don't mark the assembler as restartable...it is not
	   purged when
Coach101   out of the problem.  A pain, so I added another meg.   GA
AE PhilM   the linker asks for symbol table and output file space.
AFL Dyfet  Ah.  Okay, I believe the next question is from Pirate.  GA
	   Pirate.
Pirate14   Is there a toolbox routine to access the Control pannel on the
 	   IIGS?
AFL Dyfet  GA Phil.
AE PhilM   There is a Control Panel vector in the $E1 space...i think it is
	   called 
AE PhilM   toCtlPannel.
AE PhilM   done
Pirate14   Which tool set is that in?
AE PhilM   It's not in any toolset...it is a vector in bank $E1
AFL Dyfet  It's not a tool.  You would do a jsl to it, I would guess.  GA
	   Dave.
Dave Lyons Pirate, that vector is not in any toolset.  What is it exactly
	   that you want to do?  Just
Pirate14   Ok.  Also, A friend of mine is trying to turn off the interupts
	   and
Dave Lyons make the machine behave as if the user hit Apple-Ctrl-Esc?
Pirate14   turn on the serial buffer on his IIC.  How do you do that?
Dave Lyons I'm pretty sure you *can't* just JSL to that vector--if you can, I
	   don't think
Pirate14   I want to be able to change settings from within the program.
Dave Lyons it's guaranteed.
AE PhilM   Looks like we're not talking about the same thing.
Dave Lyons The IIc???  The IIc doesn't have a control panel, and any
Dave Lyons program you write in TML Pascal will not run on a IIc.
Pirate14   I mean interrups on the IIC.
AFL Dyfet  I didn't think it was a safe vector, either...I think he had two
	   questions
AFL Dyfet  there.
Pirate14   And the control pannel on the IIGS.
Pirate14   Sorry.
Coach101   Pirate's \interrupt question is from a friend of his with a II-c
Pirate14   Exactly.
AFL Dyfet  GA Phil.
AE PhilM   You have to access the battery backed up RAM to change control
	   pannel settings
AE PhilM   Be careful tho...
AE PhilM   done
Dave Lyons Okay, I have an answer to the first one!  Catching up here...
Dave Lyons You can use WriteBParam to write a byte into the battery-backed
	   configuration
Pirate14   Where is that?
Dave Lyons RAM.  See the table in the Miscellaneous Tools chapter of Toobox
	   Ref, volume 1.  Then
AFA Gary J Misc. Toolset
Dave Lyons you can use the ToBRAMSetup vector to make those settings take
	   effect.  You'll
Dave Lyons need a tad of assembly code to do this.  If you go post your
Dave Lyons question in the TML Pascal section of Pascal in Let's Discuss,
	   I'll
Dave Lyons concoct some code & post it there.
AFL Dyfet  GA Get1.
GET1       That control panel vector is $E10090 (pg273 firmware ref.)
Pirate14   Thanks.
GET1       done
Dave Lyons You need to call that vector in SEP #$30 mode, or it will crash. 
	   ga
AFL Dyfet  Okay, I believe the next question is from Nuzz.  GA Nuzz.
Pirate14   Thanks Guys.
Nuzz       Can anyone give me some pointers on displaying a PrintshopGS pic
	   to a bitmap.
JimLaz     !
AFL Dyfet  GA Jim.
JimLaz     You might want to use Roger Wagner's Graphics exchange to change
	   it into a 
JimLaz     format that you know more about.
JimLaz     Such as a $C0 screen shot image file.
JimLaz     OR is that $C1
Nuzz       Well, that wouldn't do. I want to do the convert myself
AFL Scott  C1
AFA Gary J But I bet you want your program to do it on the fly for you,
	   right?
AE PhilM   $C1
Nuzz       Right again Gary
JimLaz     Well, then you have to get the file format...
AFL Dyfet  Hmm...I'm not sure where or if they have their file format
	   published...
AFL Dyfet  GA Gary.
JimLaz     Well, RW must have it...
JimLaz     All done... GA
AFA Gary J It's not hard to figure out.  I had it figured out once... and
	   have it somewher
AFA Gary J  around here.  It is almost the same as the older PrintShop (DOS
	   3.3 version)
Nuzz       I've figured that there are 3 data structures 572 bytes each, but
	   thats iall
AFL Scott  !
AFA Gary J except the image is repeated within the file structure 3
	   times---one for each
AFA Gary J of the three colors.
AFL Scott  -!
AFA Gary J Right.
AFL Dyfet  Hmm...that seems to answer most of the question.
AFA Gary J If I can find what info I had on it, I'll send it to you.
JimLaz     You would have to set up the pallete to represent the different
	   color when they
AFA Gary J GA
JimLaz     blend together.
Nuzz       Ok, I'll look for it Gary. Done
AFL Dyfet  Okay, did we have any other questions for tonight?
AFL Dyfet  GA Phil.
AE PhilM   Who's going to the A2 Central conference?  Just thought I'd liven
	   things up a
AE PhilM   bit.
AFL Dyfet  A2 Central is comming up already?
AE PhilM   Yep, in July.
AFL Dyfet  Yeah.  My busy season, unfortunately, it seems...
AFA Gary J Anyone else get the July issue yet?  :)
JSchober   Yup.  :)
AFA Gary J They kind of jumped the gun there... :)
AFL Dyfet  Oh?
JSchober   Yeah.. they made the June 20 annoucement on June 20... neat.  ;)
AFC Mark   The first time in history that the Post Office gave A2-Central 24
	   hour service
AFA Gary J I got my issue yesterday....(June 19) and the second paragraph of
	   the
JSchober   LOL
AFC Mark   as opposed to their normal 6 day wait... (I got mine on
	   Friday!!!)
AFA Gary J article said that "AppleWorks 3.0 was announced on June 20"
AE PhilM   :)
GET1       Appleworks 3.0?????????
AFC Mark   And who says Uncle-DOS doesn't have a crystal ball!!!  B-)
AFA Gary J Yep.
JSchober   Yup.
AFA Gary J With all the Beagle add-on features built in.
JSchober   Does it have UltraMacros built-in??  They said that Randy Brandt
	   worked on it,
JSchober   but didn't comment on any actual macro capability...
GET1       $$$$$$$$$     BEAGLE BROS   $$$$$$$$$$$$
AFL Dyfet  I saw that comming when they tried to buy PinPoint.
AFA Gary J No, I don't think that's in there, Joe.
GET1       How about AppleWorks GS 2.0?
AFA Gary J The interesting thing is the price for A2-Central subscribers....
	   $99.
AFA Gary J That's an out-right purchase price, not an upgrade price.
GET1       Is that for an Upgrade or for new purchasers? 
AFL Dyfet  Remarkable.
AFA Gary J Upgrade price is $79 (believe it or not!)  :)
AE PhilM   Yes, they said if you don't have you original disks...they can
	   still fill the
AFL Dyfet  Strange sense of proportion there, too :)
AE PhilM   order...can you believe that!!
AFA Gary J I agree, Dyfet  :)
GET1       i agree also :)
AFL Dyfet  Hmm...this doesn't sound like the Claris I used to know :)
GET1       It doesn't sound Like APPLE you mean!!!!!
JSchober   (Well, it's NOT Apple...)
AFL Marty  I take it you're talking about AppleWorks 3.0?
JSchober   Right.  :)
AFA Gary J The program was worked on by Alan Bird, Randy Brandt, and Rob
	   Renstrom
AFL Marty  The upgrade price seems reasonable to me.
AFA Gary J The NEW price seems reasonable to ME!  :)
AFA Gary J (As long as you are an A2-Central subscriber)
AFL Marty  :)
AFC Mark   And, remember, the key word here is SUBSCRIBER...
AFC Mark   (so much for my plug for the day!!!  B-)
AFL Marty  <-- a subscriber
JSchober   <-- a subscriber to that wonderful letter, too... :)
AFL Marty  I have seen a beta version of AW 3.0.  It's everything Tom W says
	   it is.
Coach101   Is Claris selling at that price or is A2-Central buying and
	   reselling
Coach101   to subscribers at the low prices?
AFA Gary J I don't know, Coach.  They must have some connection there.
AFL Dyfet  Hmm.  I need to invoice Claris...
AFA Gary J The form is mailed to Claris.
AFA Gary J (The order form is included with the July issue)
AFA Gary J Oh... ORCA/C is shipping now.  
AFL Dyfet  Yes it is Gary.
AFA Gary J A friend of mine just received it.
AFA Gary J (I think he got it last Friday)
Coach101   Are the structure definitions for the toolbox and GS/OS the same
AFL Dyfet  Anything else out this month worth noting?
Coach101   between ORCA-C and APW-C?
AFA Gary J I don't know...I haven't seen it first hand.  I'm sure we can
	   find out.
AFA Gary J You mean like 5.0, Dyfet???  :)
Coach101   I will post a question in the ORCA-C folder under "C" in ADV
AE PhilM   Does anyone use the MAC/GS development system?
AFL Dyfet  Not I.
Coach101   Nope
AFA Gary J Nor I.
AFA Gary J Dave Lyons?
AFL Dyfet  I believe they forced Dave (Lyons) to, though.
AFC Mark   I have... but my regular Mac doesn't have enough horsepower... 
AE PhilM   I started to...got a MAC IICX...i'm really impressed.  I really
	   like MPW.
Coach101   Probably put his II-GS keyboard on it for sentimental reasons
	   though
AFA Gary J How much horsepower does it take, Mark?  (I have an SE)
AE PhilM   Very, very nice system.
AE PhilM   Yep, I tried it on an SE without Multifinder...too slow.  But it's
	   pretty nice
AFC Mark   2 Meg minimum memory  (My Mac+ has only 1 meg)
AE PhilM   in a MAC IIcx.
AFA Gary J My SE only has 1 meg as well.
AFA Gary J (All my money goes into my IIGS  :)
AFC Mark   <-- Getting a IIcx so I can really work with it!
AE PhilM   Now I've just got to retrain myself into using files to split up
	   my source
Dave Lyons Whoops!  I'm here...just behind.  Yes, I've used some MPW IIgs
	   stuff.
AE PhilM   logically...now I have to use MAKE..no more partial assemblies.
AFA Gary J (We thought you had, Dave.  We figured you were off eating M&M's
	   :)
Coach101   Phil, is it nice enough to ease the higher cost of MPW vs APW?
AE PhilM   Yes, as long as AE pays for it :))  Really though...MPW is a very
	   nice system.
Dave Lyons I already ate all the M&Ms in this vicinity, unfortunately....
Coach101   Phil, can the output from MPW be delivered to a II-GS via
	   AppleShare
Coach101   or must I use the diskette transport technique?
AE PhilM   Yes, but I havent tried it.  I use duplicate IIGS.
Dave Lyons Coach, yes--you can use either AppleShare or Apple File Exchange
	   to move data between
Dave Lyons GS and Mac.