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483 lines
22 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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September 5, 1989 10:00 pm Eastern Time
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Topic: Programming on the Apple IIGS
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess we are ready to get started then...Good evening and
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welcome to
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AFL Dyfet the Apple II Development forum. Tonight's topic relates to
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Toolbox programming
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AFL Dyfet on the IIgs. We will be using PROTOCOL starting NOW. This means
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that if you
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AFL Dyfet wish to ask a question, you should enter a '?' on a line by
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itself, and if you
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Zith how does one go about setting up a heartbeat task header from c
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AFL Dyfet wish to respond to what's currently being discussed, you should
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enter a '!' on
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AFL Dyfet a line by itself. You will all be called in turn, I guess
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starting with
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AFL Dyfet Zith :). GA Zith, you have the floor :)
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Dave Lyons !
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Dave Lyons I'll take that one...I've done it before. You need to declare a
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structure that
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Zith ok now I understand how to set up a task header from assembly but
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how
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Dave Lyons has the heartbeat task header fields in it, followed by a few
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bytes of
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Zith is one created from within C. Des orca c have a #pragma
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command?
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Dave Lyons code for "REP $30, JMP >yourfunction".
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Dave Lyons As far as I know there's no #pragma for it, but doing it with a
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structure
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Dave Lyons is straightforward. I think we should put the answer in a folder
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in the C
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Dave Lyons folder of Let's Discuss for everyone's future reference (I
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will).
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Dave Lyons (ga)
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AFL Dyfet That sounds like a good idea, Dave...Okay, our next question is
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from AFA Parik,
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AFL Dyfet GA...
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AFA Parik Ok, how does QD II draw the pointer? Scan line, or vbl?
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AFA Parik (when does it draw it)
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AFA Parik ga
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons It does it using scanline interrupts by default, but you can tell
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it not to
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Dave Lyons by using SetInts (I think that's the right name for the toolbox
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call). In
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Dave Lyons that case I'm not sure when it redraws--whenever is most
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convenient for it. ga
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AFL Dyfet Hmmm...we seem a little short on questions tonight :)
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Dave Lyons (No, it's SetIntUse...yeah, that's the ticket.)
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AFL Dyfet GA Coach, you have the floor now...
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Coach101 Has anyone seen any "public" 5.0 tool box docs yet? Its almost
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fall now!
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Coach101 ga
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons I wish I could give you a date...the wait is largely over, and
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when you
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Dave Lyons finally see the stuff I hope the quality makes it seem worth the
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wait. I
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Dave Lyons know I and others did a lot of reviewing to get things right.
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ga
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AFL Dyfet I know I can hardly wait myself :)...Well, I believe Windrider is
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next, GA...
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Coach101 Guess I will need to take the checkbook to AppleFest then....
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thanks
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Coach101 for tackling a *tough* and *touchy* question.....
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Coach101 done
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Windrider5 Does anyone know if you can write a custom SortList routine (List
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Manager) in C
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...(I swear I'm gonna make this a macro :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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Dave Lyons Very good question. The tricky bit is at the end, where you need
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to return
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Dave Lyons the result: A<B or B>A. The result needs to be in the Carry
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flag, and I'm
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Dave Lyons not sure whether APW C and/or ORCA/C generate "prolog" code at the
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end of
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Dave Lyons your function that happens to preserve the carry, or if it's lost.
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If it's
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Dave Lyons preserved, you could do inline { clc } in APW C, and whatever the
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ORCA/C
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Dave Lyons equivalent is.
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Dave Lyons If not, you can write a small assembly-language "wrapper" around a
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C function.
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Dave Lyons ga
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Windrider5 what's an inline {clc}
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Dave Lyons "inline { clc }" and "inline { sec }" are how you can
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...interesting...and a little tricky :). The inline function
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allows you
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Dave Lyons generate "clear the carry flag" and "set the carry flag"
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instructions from
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Dave Lyons APW C.
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AFL Dyfet to imbedd machine code instructions into your program, as Dave is
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explaining
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AFL Dyfet within my explanation :)...GA Coach...
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Coach101 The APW-C manual (in the section on calling/receiving) sequences
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Coach101 has some interesting examples of how one could creatively use
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the
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Coach101 inline function. ga.
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AFL Dyfet Side Note: Orca/C, from what I recall, uses the same calling
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conventions as
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AFL Dyfet Orca/Pascal.
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AFL Dyfet That is, I believe the function does NOT clear out the stack frame
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before
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Coach101 That is correct Dave...
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AFL Dyfet returning, so it may be possible to save the status flag on
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exiting.
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Coach101 Oops..... Apw-C has the caller clear the stack frame...
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Coach101 Orca-C has the receiver clear the stack frame...
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AFL Dyfet Did I get that backwards??
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Coach101 At least thats the way I rememver it...
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave :)
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Dave Lyons What do you guys mean by "clear out" the stack frame? Removing
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the input
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Dave Lyons parameters when the function returns?
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Coach101 Yes
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AFL Dyfet Yes, exactly, Dave...:)
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Dave Lyons APW C: caller normally removes the input parameters, but you can
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Dave Lyons declare it as "pascal", and APW C will have the function remove
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them itself.
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Dave Lyons (It can call both C and Pascal-style routines, as long as it knows
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what
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Dave Lyons it's calling.)
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AFL Dyfet It's more common for the caller to clear the frame in C, since
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variable
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AFL Dyfet argument functions are supported, and, in theory, the called
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routine may not
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AFL Dyfet know what was passed to it. Most Pascal implimentations have the
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called
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AFL Dyfet routine clear the frame, since the number of arguments are fixed
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and known at
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AFL Dyfet compile time.
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Dave Lyons Dang--before, when I said "inline", I meant "asm". (Duh.)
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Coach101 Less crashes (without prototyping) if the caller clears the
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frame...
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Coach101 I knew that looked strange Dave....
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Dave Lyons (Well, I *feel* strange, so it's okay.) BTW, I'd *rather* crash
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when I'm
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Dave Lyons passing the wrong # of parameters, & find out right away that way.
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ga
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...I guess that makes Orca/C a little non-traditional
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:)...Well, I think we
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AFL Dyfet have gone far beyond the bounds of the original question :).
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see that the next question is from Brin. GA Brin...
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Brin Londo Can load font and print w/ QDII. Having trouble w/ 3rd party progs
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(PWG)...
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Brin Londo shoving font into FONTS.LIST file (is there a format for this
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file. ga
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...:)
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Dave Lyons I don't understand the circumstances--are you adding a file to the
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*:System:
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Dave Lyons Fonts directory, or not? The only entity in the universe that has
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the
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Dave Lyons right to fiddle around with the Font.Lists file is the Font
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Manager, and it's
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Brin Londo Yes but 3rd party won't recognize and load.
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Dave Lyons supposed to contain information about the fonts in that
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directory.
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Dave Lyons Did you create the Font file yourself, or did you get it from
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somewhere? (In
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Brin Londo Back to manual. Must have missed its reference in Font Manager
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section
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Dave Lyons other words, are you certain it's in the correct format. As
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described in
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Brin Londo used Beagle bros. font editor
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Dave Lyons File Type Note $C8 (Font Files), there is a Pascal-string font
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name tacked
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Dave Lyons onto the beginning of the file.
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Dave Lyons Oh, okay--if it's a Beagle-created font file, it ought to be
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fine.
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Dave Lyons Font.Lists is not mentioned in
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Brin Londo I'll just have to re-read Font Manager section I guess. (shrug)
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Dave Lyons the Addison-Wesley toolbox reference, since it wasn't around at
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that time
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Brin Londo Update?
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Dave Lyons (it's mentioned in recent system software release notes).
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Dave Lyons So, your 3rd-party software
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Brin Londo Oh. where exactly (futile search) today
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Dave Lyons doesn't see the font at all, not even in Choose Font dialogs?
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Brin Londo no only fonts in Font.Lists file
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Dave Lyons When you start up the Font Manager, it checks the
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Dave Lyons Font.Lists file against all the font files actually present, and
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if there
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Dave Lyons are discrepencies, it *rebuilds* the Font.Lists file
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automatically. You
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Brin Londo 4.0 or 5.0?
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Dave Lyons have to try pretty hard to trick it into not rebuilding the list
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(copy over
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Dave Lyons a file of the same name, without changing the modification or
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create date/time,
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Dave Lyons for example).
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Dave Lyons System Software 4.0 release notes should talk about Font.Lists,
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but there's
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Dave Lyons nothing to know that I didn't just tell you.
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Brin Londo No. I meant will 4.0 rebuild list?
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Dave Lyons Yes--any version of the system software that contains a Font
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Manager that
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Dave Lyons cares about Font.Lists is smart enough to rebuild it. Older
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versions of
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Dave Lyons the Font Manager ignore Font.Lists completely, and no 3rd-party
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application
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Dave Lyons should know anything about Font.Lists at all.
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Dave Lyons How are you copying the font into your Fonts directory?
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Brin Londo Thanks (off to go strangle Activison programmer).
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Brin Londo Finder 5.0
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Dave Lyons A final note--
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Dave Lyons if you still have probs, you can *try* throwing out the existing
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Font.Lists
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Dave Lyons file. That should *not* be necessary, but if you can't find any
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other
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Dave Lyons solution I'd be interested to hear what happens when you get rid
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of it. ga
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Brin Londo Interesting (If all you have is a hammer the world is a nail.)
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Brin Londo If that works I'll get back to you. Nite all. ga.
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AFL Dyfet Hmm, well, it's time to get that question Queue filled back up
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again :)...
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Coach101 Why is there air?
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Dave Lyons Because there isn't no air.
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AFL Dyfet Space that needs filling :)...
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AFA Gary J Air is there to breath.
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AFL Dyfet Well, don't breath up all the questions :)
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AFL Dyfet GA JD, you have the floor now...
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AFA Gary J (yeah! a question...I was almost out of breath..)
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JDavies1 thanks, I need to know if there is any way to watch data going to
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the disk,
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JDavies1 I am having trouble saving data then restoring it. I wanted to see
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what was or
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JDavies1 wasn't going out.
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Dave Lyons !
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JDavies1 i'm done ....ga
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Dave Lyons Would looking at the file produced be good enough? You could go
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into
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Dave Lyons BASIC.SYSTEm and BLOAD the thing (details on request), or DUMP the
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thing with
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Dave Lyons my favorite command shell (Davex), or with some other people's
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favorite
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Dave Lyons command shells.
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JDavies1 Yes but it is MIDI data and I'm not sure what it exactly suppose
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to be.. sounds
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JDavies1 like I don't really know what I'm doing...well I'm real lazy!
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Dave Lyons If you don't know what the data is supposed to be, how are you
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going to know
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Dave Lyons if it's right even if you can watch it on its way to the disk? :)
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You're
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Dave Lyons gonna have to figure out what it is that you're supposed to end up
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with, before
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JDavies1 Even to see what was saved was loaded.
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Dave Lyons you can determine whether you're Writing it wrong or Reading it
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wrong. ga
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JDavies1 I just wanted to compare if what was going out was comming in
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first..I guess I
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JDavies1 could use a dummy window and compare the two after a save then
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load..Does
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Dave Lyons Okay, so have your program write some of the data to the screen
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before you
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Dave Lyons save it, and again after you read it back. No problem.
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JDavies1 anyone know of a disk editor that works under GSOS?
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Dave Lyons I use Block Warden. Doesn't work *under* GS/OS, but it doesn't
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take very
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Dave Lyons long these days to switch between GS/OS and ProDOS 8. Not long at
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all.
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AFL Dyfet That's a touchy subject :), since you cannot perform block
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read/write calls to
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Dave Lyons WHILE you're under GS/OS, you generally can't write any blocks
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directly to
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Dave Lyons your boot disk, since Sys.Resources is open.
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Coach101 GS/OS Exerciser will work.... Not really a disk editor but it can
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save
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Coach101 the day
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Dave Lyons (Dave, you can BLOCK_READ with no problem, all the time, to a
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ProDOS disk.)
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AFL Dyfet a volume device that has an open file...or as Dave said...:)
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JDavies1 Well I need support for more than two hard disk paartitions
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JDavies1 with like copy II+ bit editor
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Dave Lyons I don't know of a GS/OS disk editor right now, but ECP16 should be
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able
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Dave Lyons to DUMP your file in hex with no problem.
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AE PhilM Vulcan will allow up to 4 Prodos partitions :)
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Coach101 DUMPOBJ under Apw will also do nice hex dumps...
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Dave Lyons Yeah, what Coach said. I always forget that.
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AFA Gary J Hmmm, I think there is something that someone uploaded in our
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library that
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AFA Gary J will do that too.. All it does is display the file in
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hex...using a desk top
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AFA Gary J window.
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AFA Gary J (I don't recall the name, off hand)
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JDavies1 I'll look for that program or use dumpobj, Thanks.
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AE PhilM Dave, how about adding a bload to nifty list ??
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Dave Lyons Very good idea. Nifty List will be getting modules Any Year Now,
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so things
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Dave Lyons like that will be easy to do, without penalizing people who want
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to keep NL
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AFA Gary J Yeah! :)
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Dave Lyons small--they can ignore the modules they don't want.
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Coach101 Great.... Interrupt queues module would nice....
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Dave Lyons Eh? Interrupt queue?
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AFA Gary J :)
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Coach101 List the people who have registered for receipt of particular
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interrupts
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Dave Lyons Hmmm...interesting. Not sure if it can be done from an
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outside-the-OS point
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Dave Lyons of view, but I'll look into it.
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Coach101 Ah, but your on the inside *NOW*
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from Doctor Why. You have
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the floor now.
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Doctor Why I was writing a desktop program in Orca/Pascal and was trying to
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add some Print
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Doctor Why Manager routines (for my first time). I was just inserting code to
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display the
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Doctor Why various dialogs. The PrChoosePrinter worked fine but
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Doctor Why the PrStlDialog and PrJobDialog caused the system to crash.
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Dave Lyons !
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Doctor Why Any ideas?
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Gee, it doesn't look like you're using 5.0 yet. (Under 5.0,
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PrChoosePrinter
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Dave Lyons puts up a dialog that says "Use the control panel instead,"
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basically.)
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Dave Lyons I don't know what's causing your crash, though. At what address
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did it
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Dave Lyons crash? Did it return from the toolbox call at all, or did it
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crash while
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Dave Lyons in there?
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Doctor Why No, this was from a few weeks ago, and I don't have any specifics
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here.
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Dave Lyons Well...gee...ask a specific question, get a specific answer. :-)
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Doctor Why I selected the Print option from menu and crashed.
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AE PhilM !
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFL Dyfet GA Phil...
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AE PhilM How did you get a print record? You need to pass those as input
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to both
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AE PhilM PrJob and PrStl
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AE PhilM ga
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Doctor Why I used PrDefault? was that right?
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AE PhilM Sounds correct....humm...don't know.
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Dave Lyons (flip, flip, flip....)
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Dave Lyons No, PrDefault just
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AE PhilM Did you pass a handle or a pointer to PrDefault?
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Dave Lyons initializes a handle to be a nice default print record. You have
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to allocate
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Dave Lyons it yourself with NewHandle, apparently.
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Doctor Why handle.
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Dave Lyons Where did you get the handle, Doctor Why?
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Dave Lyons (BTW, "A print record is 140 bytes long." TB Ref 1, page
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15-19.)
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Doctor Why I believe that I defined it myself.
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Dave Lyons DW, when you say you "defined it yourself," do you mean you
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declared it as
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Dave Lyons a handle (as in Pascal: var xyz: Handle;), or that you actually
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assigned
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Dave Lyons it a value that came back from NewHandle?
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Doctor Why handle := ^pointer
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AE PhilM Did you get 140 bytes of space from the memory manager?
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Dave Lyons Yes, a "handle" as a data type is a pointer to a pointer. The
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particular
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Dave Lyons handle you pass to PrDefault has to actually be a Memory Manager
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handle,
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Dave Lyons and it has to refer to a 140-byte block of memory.
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Doctor Why You're testing my memory...I think so, but I'm not sure.
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AE PhilM If you did not allocate enough room for your record...that could
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certainly be
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AE PhilM the cause of the crash...on the otherhand if PrDefault is actually
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checking
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AE PhilM the input to see if it is a memory manager handle...it would
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probably return
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Doctor Why That may be my problem. I don't remember if I used NewHandle
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AE PhilM with some sort of error, but do no harm.
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Dave Lyons PrDefault *probably* isn't checking to see that it's a valid
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handle; in
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Dave Lyons general, the toolbox assumes the application programmer is a
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responsible
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Dave Lyons entity and doesn't bother double-checking everything. It would
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rather
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Dave Lyons crash. (This is more efficient, except when your program isn't
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working
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Dave Lyons right--it increases debugging time in exchange for better
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performance at
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Dave Lyons run-time.)
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Dave Lyons ga
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AE PhilM :) Ahh....debugger toolbox in ROM's is what we need. Remember
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the IIe
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AFL Dyfet Do we have any more questions or comments for tonight?
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AE PhilM debugger ROMS. done
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A2GS ?
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Dave Lyons Ack! No, we *don't* need additional versions of the toolbox
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floating around--
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Go ahead, A2GS...
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Coach101 ? (though not toolbox)
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Dave Lyons my life is complicated enough with ROM 1 and ROM 3. (Sorry!)
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Doctor Why Thanks Dave (and Phil)
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A2GS I want to use the Floating Point Algorithms or at least look at
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them to adapt
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A2GS them to 16-bit code (the ones currently used by Applesoft), Where
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do I look?
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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A2GS Specifically I'm looking for DIV. and MULT. routines.
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Dave Lyons Look in the Apple Numerics Manual, Second Edition, and at its
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37-item
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Dave Lyons bibliography. (Is that the sort of answer you're looking for?
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Probably
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Dave Lyons not, but I can't say "I'll send you SANE source," and I can't say
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"Just
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Dave Lyons disassemble the ROM," so I say "Find some good reference
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material.") ga
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AFL Dyfet :)...A number of magazines used to list entry points to the
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Applesoft FP
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AFL Dyfet routines :)...
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AFL Dyfet GA Gary...
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AFA Gary J Or...you can look right here on-line..
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A2GS You wouldn't happen to know whether it's bank 00 or 01 (probably
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00)
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AFA Gary J in the reference library.
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A2GS Where, where, where, where.....?
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Dave Lyons (Whoops! I overlooked the reference to Applesoft in the question.
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Sorry.)
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AFA Gary J Just enter the words "AppleSoft and Internals" in the
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Dave Lyons !
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AFA Gary J search field, and there are a number of articles avaialble.
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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AFA Gary J (or available, even :)
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Dave Lyons From a running P8 program, Applesoft is in bank 0, but
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Dave Lyons from the Monitor, when you're looking, it's bank $FF, since the
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monitor
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Dave Lyons always shows you language card space in bank 0. ga
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AFA Gary J (Use keyword REFERENCE to get to the reference library)
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A2GS SO an address pointing to let's say Exxx is actually calling
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ff/Exxxx (right?)
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A2GS FF/Exxx
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AFL Dyfet Not exactly...bank $FF is really mapped into bank 0, and for all
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intents and
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Dave Lyons From *your* point of view, as a Monitor user, yes. From
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Dave Lyons the 65816's point of view, no.
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AFL Dyfet purposes looks like the IIe memory map, when the roms are enabled
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:)
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A2GS Thought so :), don't want to go nuts looking everywhere
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else....Thanx :)
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A2GS GA
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Coach101 I wish to write some additional protocol stacks for use with
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AppleTalk,
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Coach101 How do I do this under 5.0. Is, or will, the necessary docs be
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Coach101 available? ga
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Dave Lyons Gee...doesn't anybody else want to take that questoin? :-)
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Dave Lyons Or "...ion." I think the documentation is *mostly* already out
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there, but
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Dave Lyons there are almost certainly some gaps.
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Dave Lyons I suggest dealing with Apple II DTS officially (Channel AppleLink,
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|
MCI Mail,
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Dave Lyons or U.S. Mail), with questions as specific as possible.
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|
Dave Lyons (ga)
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AFL Dyfet I'd love to see TCP/IP myself :)...then I could FTP to HDS unix or
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|
other odd
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AFL Dyfet things like that :)
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Coach101 Drat, someday I will take the time to write up the Partner
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app....
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Coach101 Are the entry points that were documented for ProDos-16 still
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valid?
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Dave Lyons Coach, write in anyway. It can't hurt, and you'll probably
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|
actually get
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|
Dave Lyons an answer.
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Coach101 TCP/Ip is what I have in mind Dyfet :)
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Dave Lyons Yes, the P16 stuff is still valid.
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AFL Dyfet With Telnet/rlogin support? What are you trying to hook up to,
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|
Coach?
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Coach101 24 II-GS, dozen or so Macs, several mainframes,.... All across
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|
the
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|
Coach101 continental US
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Coach101 Oops, forgot the VAXs & IBM-PCs
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AFL Dyfet Sounds like last winter, when we played 'the game' (cross country
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|
Empire :)
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Coach101 Project for NASA.....
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AFA Gary J Sounds interesting...
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...now that sounds like a fun project :)...
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