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310 lines
15 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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Tuesday, November 20, 1990 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
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Topic: Apple II Network Programming
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Dyfet Tonight's topic is Network Programming on the Apple II
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AFL Dyfet Yes Scott, go ahead...let's give Scott some room to talk on the
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floor folks :)
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AFL Scott If I use GS/OS Class 1 file calls will my program be able to be
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run from an AppleShare server?
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AFL Dyfet On topic...:) GA Dave...
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EdWatkeys Can't your programs run from a server provided they don't READ or
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WRITE BLOCK?
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Dave Lyons Scott, that isn't enough to *guarantee* you'll run with
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AppleShare, but it's certainly
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Dave Lyons helpful. You don't have to worry about getting killed by long
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paths that way (AppleShare
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Dave Lyons pathnames can easily be >64 characters long).
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Dave Lyons The stuff listed in the GS/OS Technical Notes is very good.
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Dave Lyons If you have any hard-coded
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Dave Lyons pathnames, make sure the high bits are turned *off* for regular
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ASCII characters--the ProDOS
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Dave Lyons FST ignores the high bits, even though they are *supposed* to be
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off. AppleShare (and possibly
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Dave Lyons other FSTs in the future) care about all 8 bits of your
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characters.
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Dave Lyons (ga)
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AFL Dyfet In regards to Ed's question, there are instances you cannot use
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block read/
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AFL Dyfet write on a ProDOS volume :), and certainly not on a server
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volume.
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AFL Scott Ok...do you happen to remember the technote number, Dave?
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AFL Scott And thanks, BTW!:)
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Dave Lyons Sure, just a sec--
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Dave Lyons GS/OS #4, A GS/OS State of Mind is good; also there is material in
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the GS/OS Reference,
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Dave Lyons of course.
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AFL Scott Thanks!:) GA, Done, Finito :)
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Dave Lyons Stay completely away from READ_BLOCK, WRITE_BLOCK, DRead, and
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DWrite whenever you can.
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Dave Lyons (ga)
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EdWatkeys Dread? RWrite? What are they (I'm an 8-bitter...)
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AFL Dyfet The block read/write calls are blocked in the ProDOS FST if any
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files are open
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AFL Dyfet on the volume in question due to caching. Otherwise you could
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disturb
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AFL Dyfet something in transition (ugly). For both ProDOS 8 and the GS/OS
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AppleShare FST
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AFL Dyfet block I/O is disabled completely. Correct Dave??
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Dave Lyons Yes--
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Dave Lyons AppleShare returns errors ($88 I think) if you try to do block
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reads/writes.
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Dave Lyons (Ed, DRead and DWrite are GS/OS calls.)
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Dave Lyons One more tip--
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Dave Lyons Don't use Read to scan a directory; use GetDirEntry instead. (I
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think ProDOS lets you use Read for
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Dave Lyons backward compatibility, but other FSTs do NOT!)
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFL Dyfet Under ProDOS 8, open and read the directory file through the MLI
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file access
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AFL Dyfet calls, and NEVER by following the directory block links with
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direct block I/O.
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EdWatkeys Well, what do DRead and DWrite do?
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Dave Lyons (Ed, they stand for "Device read" and "device write"--they let you
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read and write ranges
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Dave Lyons of blocks on a block device.)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, who else has a networking/AppleShare question for tonight?
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ShanoJ I guess I'll make a wild stab at a question: if in Convert/3200 I
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want to
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ShanoJ change the suffix of a file (ie. xxxxx.SCR for a $C1 file) in the
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save dialog,
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ShanoJ it's not a good idea to just truncate the input filename to 11
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characters and
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ShanoJ add the .SCR, right? I should keep ALL of the characters? What do
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I do if that
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ShanoJ doesn't fit in the SFPutFile LE?
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AFL Dyfet GA Joey...
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AFA JoeyS Well, IMHO (and probably according to AHIG, too), a suffix should
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never be
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AFA JoeyS forcibly added -- naming should be totally the user's option. You
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can, however
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AFA JoeyS take the source (GIF, whatever) filename, truncate to 11, add
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".SCR", and pass
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AFA JoeyS it to SFPutFile as the default name... that'd keep everyone happy.
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GA.
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Dave Lyons (Yeah, what Joey said.)
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AFL Dyfet :)
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AFA Gary J (the Dave Lyons stamp of approval :)
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AFA JoeyS :)
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AFL Dyfet "Nifty-Stamp" :)
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFA Gary J USDA
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AFA Gary J (DAve :)
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Dave Lyons (Or USDAL?)
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AFA JoeyS LOL
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Dave Lyons BTW, it has been suggested that Standard File ought to
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Dave Lyons let you specify a default name and have *part* of it selected by
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default, so you could
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Dave Lyons have something like [UNTITLED].SCR (bracketed part is selected)
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and type over that part, leaving
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Dave Lyons the suffix (but you could still edit the rest, of course).
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ShanoJ So even if it's a 64 character name from an AppleShare sever, it'd
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be okay to
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ShanoJ truncate the thing?! Say it aint so.... :)
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Dave Lyons (AppleShare names are limited to 31 characters.)
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Dave Lyons What? I don't understand the question.
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AFA JoeyS The user could always change it... defaults aren't forced, y'know.
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:)
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ShanoJ I know, I'm just thinking of MyVeryVeryLongNamedGIF coming out to
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be
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ShanoJ MyVeryVeryL.GIF
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Dave Lyons For the SFxxx2 calls, the edit line is *not* limited to 15
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characters! Use the "2" calls!
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AFL Marty (If they are forced, it's default of deprogrammer.)
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AFA JoeyS Right, Jonah, but the point is that that's only the program's
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suggestion;
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AFA JoeyS it's up to the user to name a file something meaningful.
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ShanoJ Okay, I see what you're saying....
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AFA JoeyS I'm not sure if you can use GetFSTInfo to get any specs on
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maximum
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AFA JoeyS filename length, and use that... (I'm afraid I don't have GS/OS
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ref, so never
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AFA JoeyS ever trust my comments on GS/OS calls. :( )
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Dave Lyons Nope, GetFSTInfo does not provide that sort of info these days.
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But *yes*, it would be nice if the
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Dave Lyons system provided some help in constructing valid filenames.
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AFA JoeyS Maybe validateFilename(desired_name): valid_name?
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Dave Lyons Something like that--there are a bunch of
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Dave Lyons interesting details (like how it constructs a valid name from an
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invalid one, whether it has to
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Dave Lyons be unique, whether you operate on a whole pathname or just a
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filename).
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Mac Hater (but aren't multiple FST's active at once?)
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Dave Lyons MH, Yes, all the FSTs you're using are in your system at once. So
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you would have to tell
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Dave Lyons validateFilename which FST you wanted to talk to, or else it would
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have to figure it out from the
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Dave Lyons path.
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AFA JoeyS Seems like it could just make the name syntactically valid, and
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let the
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AFA JoeyS program do any other checking it wants.
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AFA JoeyS Can you get the ID of the most recently accessed FST?
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AFA JoeyS (something like a P16 Get_Last_Dev, but for FST's?)
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Mac Hater useless.. I just save onto hard drive, but now wanna save onto
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(hint) 3.5" hfs
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Dave Lyons The most recently accessed FST is not necessarily useful--FSTs get
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"accessed" a lot.
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Dave Lyons (Besides, what if you've got a background process, like a Find
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File DA, making OS calls?)
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AFA JoeyS True. <sigh>
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Dave Lyons My favorite approach is to pass the FST ID to the validate call.
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Dave Lyons ("Just" making the filename
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Dave Lyons syntactically valid is not that simple--what you *want* is to keep
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as much of the "interesting"
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Dave Lyons parts of the name as you can, so the user can recognize the files.
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For example, copy a whole
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Dave Lyons folder of files with long names from AppleShare to ProDOS, and let
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the Finder translate the names
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Dave Lyons for you. I don't recall what it does currently, but you want
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something like chopping out the
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Dave Lyons *middles* of names that are too long--otherwise you get a lot of
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duplicate filenames.)
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AFA JoeyS (thinking)... (sorta-solution): after making the SFPutFile2 call
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(which accepts
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AFA JoeyS any sort of junk you give it), couldn't you get the FST used by
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device
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AFA JoeyS specified by prefix #8, then pass that ID and the requested
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filename to the
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AFA JoeyS validateFilename call?
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Dave Lyons Wait, who sez SFPutFile2 accepts whatever junk you give it? It
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actually does a GetFileInfo on the
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Dave Lyons resulting path before it returns. If there's an error, it
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complains & you stay in the dialog.
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Dave Lyons (A bad-path error, I mean.) If there's a file-not-found error it
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returns. If there's *no*
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Dave Lyons error it asks if you want to replace the file or not.
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AFA JoeyS Well, change it. :-) LOL, okay, maybe not.
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Dave Lyons Joey, I would actually like to implement something like that,
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having Standard File help you type
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Dave Lyons a good name. How should the human interface work?
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Dave Lyons It is complicated by the fact that you can type
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Dave Lyons part of a name and switch to a different disk (possibly of a
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different file system) without
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Dave Lyons disturbing the "name in progress" field.
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AFA JoeyS But, the SF dialog always knows what disk it's looking at, and can
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always
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AFA JoeyS retrieve the FST type of that volume.
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Dave Lyons True, but are you saying I should *not* be able
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Dave Lyons to do the following? Tab to a ProDOS volume,
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Dave Lyons type in "this name has blanks", tab to an AppleShare volume, and
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hit Save?
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AFA JoeyS No, you should be able to do that. But after you press RETURN
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with your
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AFA JoeyS desired filename, the system knows: what volume you're saving to,
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what FST that
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AFA JoeyS volume uses, and what the filename is. That doesn't help with
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on-the-fly
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AFA JoeyS "guidance", but SF could put up a dialog like "The filename:
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<what_you_typed>
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AFA JoeyS is invalid because <name is too long><the character " " is not
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accepted>
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AFA JoeyS <whatever>." and let you tried again. <shrug>
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Dave Lyons Yeah, that is pretty reasonable. I am leaning
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Dave Lyons toward giving a generic one- or two-sentence description of the
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proper syntax for a given
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Dave Lyons file system, rather than telling them exactly what is wrong with
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their particular path (there can
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Dave Lyons be any combination of problems, including *multiple* illegal
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characters, so it doesn't seem
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Dave Lyons worth the complication to build a whole sentence!)
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AFA JoeyS Well, in place of the specific description, the FST could try
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AFA JoeyS reconstructing the input to a valid path; i.e. "The filename
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AFA JoeyS 'big long file name' is not acceptable to the ProDOS FST.
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'biglongfilename' is
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AFA JoeyS a valid alternative." Yeah, getting complicated there, maybe too
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much so.
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Dave Lyons (Yeah, that too--it can make a valid path from the invalid one &
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stuff that as the default in a
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Dave Lyons line edit box inside the dialog. I don't want the dialog more
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complicated that necessary, but it
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Dave Lyons may work. Buttons = Cancel (back to main SF dialog), Continue
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(use the name entered in the
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Dave Lyons sub-dialog). Reasonable?
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AFA Gary J That's reasonable to me.
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AFA JoeyS Continue = accept system's altered/valid name? Sounds good,
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yup.
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Dave Lyons Continue = accept whatever is in the subdialog line-edit box,
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which starts out as a system-
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Dave Lyons provided valid name, yeah.
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AFA JoeyS Yeah... well, err...
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Dave Lyons (And that would be continue saving *or* continue with the "New
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Folder" operation. Is that all?)
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AFA JoeyS I might be missing something, but why have an LE field in the
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subdialog (the
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AFA JoeyS warning box)? Just pass it back as the new default name in the
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regular
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AFA JoeyS SFPutFile; that way the user can go change disks again or whatever
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without
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AFA JoeyS clicking any extra buttons ('cept OK/RETURN to dispense with the
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original
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AFA JoeyS alert -- which users could do without even looking at it.)
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Dave Lyons Hmmm...okay, then you have "Cancel" and "Accept", and once you
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Accept you have to click Save again,
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Dave Lyons right?
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Dave Lyons That would work too.
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AFA JoeyS Seems there should be only >one< place to type the filename (the
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current LE
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AFA JoeyS box).
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Dave Lyons Okay, I can dig having only one place to type the name. It seems
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like there should be an option
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Dave Lyons to ignore the reconstructed name & just fix it yourself, since you
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might have clicked Save while
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Dave Lyons on the wrong disk (you might have the right name on the wrong
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filesystem, instead of a bad name on the
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Dave Lyons right filesystem, no?).
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AFA JoeyS I'm sorry, I don't agree with that... having an option to ignore
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the regen'd
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AFA JoeyS name just adds one more option; gets too confusing. The =worst=
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that could
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AFA JoeyS happen if the system just passed the regen'd name to the regular
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SF dialog LE
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AFA JoeyS box is that you accidentally hit save, and get a misnamed but
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recognizable
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AFA JoeyS file. There's no way to avoid accidentally clicking buttons.
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%)
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AFL Dyfet :)
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AFA Gary J I don't know. I think I'd get ticked at the computer altering my
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file name if
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AFA Gary J I had it right, but just selected the wrong volume.
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AFA JoeyS You shouldn't have selected the wrong volume, then. :P LOL
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFA JoeyS <re-shrug> I guess if the "This name is invalid; 'blah...' is an
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acceptable
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AFA JoeyS alternative." had Cancel (OA/.) (ignore changed name) and OK
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(RETURN) (accept
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AFA JoeyS changed name) buttons I'd live.
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AFA Gary J True :) But what if you have "Big long path name for a HFS
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volume", and had
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AFA Gary J to re-type? I guess you'd learn fast to get the volume right the
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first time!
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AFL Dyfet I think we could probably do better discussing this in a message
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area :)
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AFA JoeyS LOL... right, Gary. Who types names like that anyway? :)
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AFA Gary J Only the mac types, I guess.
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Dave Lyons (Gary, your name is 3 characters too long, I think.)
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AFA JoeyS :) Dave
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AFA Gary J I think so, Dave :)
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A2GS <--- My name just makes it :-)
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J AFA Gar
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFL Dyfet I hate when that happens...
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFC TAP so do I..
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A2GS Never seems to happen to me...wonder why? (looking at ceiling)
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AFA JoeyS Be thankful we're not using MS-DOS... we'd be stuck with
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filename.dat. :(
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AFA Gary J That's got to be the worst.
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AFL Marty I like MSDOS :)
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A2GS Messy-Dos....the way of the future
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AFA Gary J But wait, what about DOS 3.3 file names? :) (just kidding)
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Dave Lyons (The Tandy 200 has FILNAM.XXX. That's worse.)
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A2GS DOS 3.3 was/IS great
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AFA JoeyS Well, it's a bitty machine, though.
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AFA Gary J (DOS 3.3 names are nice compared to ProDOS, although ProDOS is
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more practical)
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