mirror-textfiles.com/bbs/CBBS/1993/930213.ch

PROTOCOL: ALT

COMPRESSION: NONE

CONNECT 2400/ARQ
CBBS(R) 4.0.3b
02/13/93 01:48:20

Y/N: want CBBS "1st time user" info?^U
?^U
?^U
?n;ward;christensen;odraw;;fullc;piss

Logging name to disk...
You are caller 228835; next msg =46065;  376 active msgs.
Prev. call 02/11/93 @ 00:06, next msg was 46058
Recording logon for next time.
Use FULL? to check assignments
?^U
?xxxxx
"Mine" command checking for msgs TO you, ^K to a
>Function:?dir c:log;dir c:killed;dir summary;type-20 log,ward c;or;*;short
LOG.   8 
KILLED.  13 
SUMMARY.  25 
02/11/93,00:06:27,228807,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
E#46058,
E#46059,
E#46060,
E#46061,
02/11/93,00:34:04,228808,X,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,1
02/11/93,03:42:41,228809,2,ALEX ZELL,,
02/11/93,03:50:18,228810,2,ALEX ZELL,,0
]"Disc" doesn't work as it did before.  It merely freezes cbbs and the
remote plug has to be pulled.  Let's see if / works.
ALEX ZELL,4
02/11/93,03:56:31,228811,2,ALEX ZELL,,0
]Nope.  / produced date and time 03:54:03 and announced that I had been
on "4 minutes" and then froze up.  Alt H to my box did the job.Aha,
just got an order to "please continue...."
ALEX ZELL,
02/11/93,06:30:03,228812,2,ERIC BOHLMAN,,5
02/11/93,17:04:32,228813,2,MICHAEL MCDANIEL,,1
02/11/93,17:07:16,228814,2,MICHAEL MCDANIEL,,5
02/11/93,22:14:03,228815,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
E#46062,3
02/11/93,22:22:34,228816,2,DICK LIEBER,,4
02/12/93,00:03:34,228817,1,STEVE FARMILANT,,7
02/12/93,00:12:57,228818,1,STEVE FARMILANT,,4
02/12/93,00:22:18,228819,2,STEVE FARMILANT,,
E#46063,9
02/12/93,08:35:07,228820,2,BEN TEIFELD,,3
02/12/93,11:00:04,228821,2,DAVID BETHANY,,2
02/12/93,13:11:37,228822,2,ALEX ZELL,,4
02/12/93,13:46:52,228823,2,TONY ANTONUCCI,,10
02/12/93,14:00:22,228824,2,DAVID HAGEN,,1
02/12/93,14:35:42,228825,2,KEN STARKEY,Skokie/ Il,4
02/12/93,14:40:07,228826,2,KEVIN LICKO,Franklin Park/IL.,
02/12/93,15:39:12,228827,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,6
02/12/93,17:30:46,228828,2,LARRY GLASSMAN,,7
02/12/93,20:22:27,228829,2,STEVE FARMILANT,,1
02/12/93,21:36:38,228830,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,7
02/12/93,22:15:16,228831,2,ED FOSTER,,2
02/12/93,23:20:50,228832,2,MARTIN SCHRADER,,
E#46064,82
]See you at the pizza party.  For The First Time!!!
MARTIN SCHRADER,
02/13/93,00:24:19,228833,3,JOHN WILKERSON,,14
02/13/93,00:29:37,228834,3,JOHN WILKERSON,,5
]I AM A HAM WOULD LIKE TO COMM WITH
OTHER HAMS CALL SIGN KB9FOR
JOHN WILKERSON,
02/13/93,01:48:24,228835,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
46058 02/11/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => TRACI WEISTER: "R/TERM PAPER"
46059 02/11/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => TRACI WEISTER: "R/TERM PAPER"
46060 02/11/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => TRACI WEISTER: "(CONT'D)"
46061 02/11/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => MICHAEL SHARTIAG: "R/PARITY & CLOCK CYCLES"
46062 02/11/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => ALEX ZELL: "CBBS HANGING UP"
46063 02/12/93 STEVE FARMILANT => ALL: "CPM TO DOS BASIC CONVERTER?"
46064 02/12/93 MARTIN SCHRADER => WARD CHRISTENSEN: "SEAGATE IDE "SLAVE" PROBLEM"

 - End of summary - 

Retrieving flagged msgs: C skips, K aborts.

Msg 46058 is 25 line(s) on 02/11/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to TRACI WEISTER re: R/TERM PAPER

 How long did it take to write CBBS? Well, it was conceived in a phone
call from me to Randy on Jan 16, '78, and by the first of Feb or so I
had some running code - no one would believe that so said "Ok, call it
one month - lets make Feb 16 the OFFICIAL birthday".
 Does the board look like it did when it was started? Pretty much.
Mostly some commands were added, but the original set was to (E)nter
a msg, (S)ummarize msg headers, (G)ood bye, (?) quick help, possibly
a more complete (H)elp, etc. I don't remember.
 There was no clock. User's previous calls weren't remembered. I
hadn't invented a good scheme for message storage, so the msg numbers
had to be "packed down" occasionally when the ten-messages-per-file
files got too numerous and sparse, etc. (Now, what I do is take the
low order two digits of the msg #, "and" them in ascii with a hex "fffe",
or to put it another way, round it (down) to the nearest even number,
then append the message to that file (message.x58 for this msg and
all msgs ending in 58 or 59). This gives me a message base of 50
files (quicker sequential-read access than having one big one).
 Tell 'ya what, I'll try to extract just the "meat" from my 21K history
file and put it up here in a msg. First I'll end this one and see if
it might already be here. CBBS has a powerful search ability (beats
Compuserve, for example) in being able to search for compound things like
multiple words, or in this case I'm going to search for a msg from me
and about history: or;1,f=ward&s=history OK, so the syntax sucks,
what the heck. (it stands for "O"ne line summary, with "R"etrieval,
starting at msg 1, from = ward, & (and) subject = history.

Msg 46059 is 23 line(s) on 02/11/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to TRACI WEISTER re: R/TERM PAPER

OK, here's the "brief" (read: 1:40 AM on a weekday night) version:
 Randy and I were both 'snowbound' on the 16th of January '78. I had
the CACHE (Chicago Area Computer Hobbyist's Exchange) "hotline" in my
basement. I was concerned that we weren't getting enough newsletter
material for the club, and thought about the idea of putting a system
on that line for people to call into, and MODEM in articles. SO, I called
Randy, and he replied:
 (1) "We'll do it at MY house since I'm in Chicago and it wouldn't be a toll
call to most people;
 (2) "Just the two of us will do it, becuase if its a club project, it will
take forever and/or never get done. {Gross paraphrase}
 (3) "I'll do the hardware, you do the software. When will it be ready?"
 So, I started doing the software hacking, and he the hardware hacking.
 Let me back up a bit to say "why" it happened:
 (1) "hobbyist" modems had come of age - the Hayes internal S-100 modem
 (2) there was a standard hardware bus (S-100) from which you could build
a reasonably economical "kludge" system - i.e. so-and-so's memory board,
so-and-so's disk controller (Tarbell Single density, 241K/8" drive),
such-and-such a serial board (Processor Technology's 3P+S), drives (Innovex
single sided 8"), video display (" " VDM-1, 64 x 16), and a kludge
keyboard going into the parallel port of the 3P+S.
 (3) there was a standard "software bus" - CP/M-80.
 <cont'd>

Msg 46060 is 28 line(s) on 02/11/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to TRACI WEISTER re: (CONT'D)

 So, I cranked out about 3 pages of MBASIC code that would "vaguely simulate"
the CBBS system, i.e. accept your name, display a message, etc (all from
faked-up msgs in memory).
 As Randy got the hardware together, I cranked out the 8080 assembler for
the software. Hardware/software wise, it eventually (to date) grew to a
hard disk based S-100 box with 2400 baud modem, and about 20,000 lines of
8080 assembler.
 That's really it in a nutshell - we don't think anyone else had come up
with a system anything like it before - and certainly no one had the
longevity we did - (thanks, Randy). We are now looking to have it 'survive'
by being moved to a PC. I have "just barely" gotten it runnin on a PC with
a V-80 8080 emulator chip, but am not happy with the function, etc - the
hassles of not really having the modem and console parallel I/O like I did
for the CP/M machine. Don't know what is best. For example, can't drop out
of CBBS into PC-DOS and run remotely - it just isn't there. I need to perhaps
hack up a character device driver which will parallel the modem with the
local output, to make remote operation of it more practical.
 Well, that wasn't as brief as I had expected, . . any questions?
 - end of canned message -
(originally written Thu Nov 13 01:54:01 1986). CBBS is now in fact
running on a PC using a CP/M emulator, and some code I hacked to allow me
to execute 80x86 interrupts from 8080 code, etc. The modem is flakey,
the HST I specifically programmed it for having busted a power supply.
 Tonight I kept getting bogus 1200 baud calls, and had to call 4 times to
get a decent 2400 baud MNP connection.
 I am doing contract programming in "C", and really should convert CBBS
to "C" - just to preserve it a few more years as a piece of history,
and make it more portable (to a native PC, or Randy's 'chinet' unix system.)

Msg 46061 is 30 line(s) on 02/11/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to MICHAEL SHARTIAG re: R/PARITY & CLOCK CYCLES

 Well, I had a parity check that was NOT caught by power-on-self-test,
just 2 days ago.
 On my PC, - original PC - I had FOUR parity checks that popped up
right in the middle of running programs. Sure enough, powering off and
back on then got a "4020 201" type error which allowed me to determine
the bank and chip to replace.
 No, I don't think parity checking takes CPU time. It probably takes
about 8 "gate delays". While I don't know if it is done this way,
there may be a more "parallel", less "serial" way, what you could do in
hardware to determine parity is this: take each pair of bits, through
an XOR gate. This gives 4 bits. Take each pair and run 'em thru an XOR
giving 2 bits. XOR those 2 bits, you get one bit out - the parity bit.
XOR it with the real parity bit, you should get 0. If you get 1, you
have a parity error. Propagation delays are down in the nanosecond
kind of ranges, so compared to the 70ns for the memory, you have a fair
amount of time to compute the parity. For a 32-bit wide system of course
you need to do this for all 32 bits, though there is parity byte by
byte.
 In the "old days" of S-100, I was editing, and could NOT insert a (
one time, always getting an 8 (or something like that). Turned out it
was due to bad memory - a bit that wouldn't stick. Wrote my own little
memory test program to find it. ANOTHER problem I had with memory was
VERY strange, and normal diags wouldn't find it! Turned out to ONLY fail
on consecutive reads - i.e. read address x, save the data in a register,
then right away read 'x' again, and compare to the value in the register.
Sure 'nuff, it caught it. Replaced a chip and I was OK again.
 CBBS ran for a couple years on a "new" PC design that did NOT have
parity memory - it worked, but I wasn't all that comfortable with it.
 Parity is probably MUCH less needed now days - but then again some big
servers are going to error CORRECTING memory (that DOES slow down a bit).

Msg 46062 is 03 line(s) on 02/11/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to ALEX ZELL re: CBBS HANGING UP

Ya, I noticed it no longer drops carrier. - my call of just 1 week ago
was OK, but since then (Sunday, I think) it didn't hang up. I've asked
Randy to look into it.

Msg 46063 is 06 line(s) on 02/12/93 from STEVE FARMILANT
to ALL re: CPM TO DOS BASIC CONVERTER?

Anyone know of a public domain program that will convert Mbasic to GWbasic?
I have some old cp/m stuff that I would like to run on my DOS machine without
running the cp/m converter program.
Also, is there such a thing as a public domain basic compiler for DOS>
.Why public domain? Simple.I don't want to spend the money!
Thanks

Msg 46064 is 16 line(s) on 02/12/93 from MARTIN SCHRADER
to WARD CHRISTENSEN re: SEAGATE IDE "SLAVE" PROBLEM

Hey, join the club. A guy I work with just recently traded me a 105
MB Toshiba (ack, thpth, fooey) drive for my 65 MB Maxtor - he couldn't
get the Toshiba to work off the same IDE controller as his other Maxtor.
After talking to Maxtor, Toshiba, and Seagate, he discovered one universal
truth which all of the manufacturers *agreed on*: the only two brands
of IDE drives that don't play nicely with other IDE drives are Seagate
and Toshiba. Figures, don't it? I had a great time dragging my Maxtor
down to a buddy's house and xfering all my stuff between several drives.
Some combinations would work, others not. Ick!

The moral of the story is this: Stay Away From Manufacturers Who Don't
Interpret The Industry Standard The Way Everybody Else Does, And Avoid
Those Manufacturers Who Sell CNC Equipment To Our (at that time) Strategic
Enemies. This should just about cover it, don't you agree?

B C'ing U.tomorrow at the pizza party.
dup. chars.
>Function:?r;-2

Msg 46063 is 06 line(s) on 02/12/93 from STEVE FARMILANT
to ALL re: CPM TO DOS BASIC CONVERTER?

Anyone know of a public domain program that will convert Mbasic to GWbasic?
I have some old cp/m stuff that I would like to run on my DOS machine without
running the cp/m converter program....
Also, is there such a thing as a public domain basic compiler for DOS>
...Why public domain?  Simple...I don't want to spend the money!
Thanks
--End of 46063

Msg #:?rep
Msg 46065
01 ?  Are those CP/M programs tokenized, i.e. "binary"?  Or are they ascii?
02 ?ASCII will just 'run' as they should be compatible between CP/M and
03 ?DOS.
04 ?  Hmmm, I recall writing a little program to de-tokenize CP/M basic
05 ?programs - i.e. I learned the format of the binary files, but that was -
06 ?what - maybe 10 years ago!  It really WOULD be best if you could turn
07 ?them back into ASCII!  Do you have any access to CP/M or a CP/M emulator
08 ?under the PC?
09 ?  No, I don't know of any compilers in the public domain.
10 ?
A,C,D,E,G,H,I,L,R,S,W (or ?):?s
Writing to disk.

Updating summary.
>Function:?r;-1
PROTOCOL: ALT

COMPRESSION: NONE

CONNECT 2400/ARQ
CBBS(R) 4.0.3b
02/13/93 11:01:56

Y/N: want CBBS "1st time user" info?^U
?^U
?^U
?n;ward;christensen;odraw;;fullc;piss

Logging name to disk...
You are caller 228838; next msg =46067;  378 active msgs.
Prev. call 02/13/93 @ 01:48, next msg was 46065
Recording logon for next time.
Use FULL? to check assignments
?^U
?xxxxx
"Mine" command checking for msgs TO you, ^K to ab
>Function:?dir c:log;dir c:killed;dir summary;type-20 log,ward c;or;*;short
LOG.   9 
KILLED.  13 
SUMMARY.  25 
02/11/93,00:06:27,228807,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
E#46058,
E#46059,
E#46060,
E#46061,
02/11/93,00:34:04,228808,X,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,1
02/11/93,03:42:41,228809,2,ALEX ZELL,,
02/11/93,03:50:18,228810,2,ALEX ZELL,,0
]"Disc" doesn't work as it did before.  It merely freezes cbbs and the
remote plug has to be pulled.  Let's see if / works.
ALEX ZELL,4
02/11/93,03:56:31,228811,2,ALEX ZELL,,0
]Nope.  / produced date and time 03:54:03 and announced that I had been
on "4 minutes" and then froze up.  Alt H to my box did the job.Aha,
just got an order to "please continue...."
ALEX ZELL,
02/11/93,06:30:03,228812,2,ERIC BOHLMAN,,5
02/11/93,17:04:32,228813,2,MICHAEL MCDANIEL,,1
02/11/93,17:07:16,228814,2,MICHAEL MCDANIEL,,5
02/11/93,22:14:03,228815,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
E#46062,3
02/11/93,22:22:34,228816,2,DICK LIEBER,,4
02/12/93,00:03:34,228817,1,STEVE FARMILANT,,7
02/12/93,00:12:57,228818,1,STEVE FARMILANT,,4
02/12/93,00:22:18,228819,2,STEVE FARMILANT,,
E#46063,9
02/12/93,08:35:07,228820,2,BEN TEIFELD,,3
02/12/93,11:00:04,228821,2,DAVID BETHANY,,2
02/12/93,13:11:37,228822,2,ALEX ZELL,,4
02/12/93,13:46:52,228823,2,TONY ANTONUCCI,,10
02/12/93,14:00:22,228824,2,DAVID HAGEN,,1
02/12/93,14:35:42,228825,2,KEN STARKEY,Skokie/ Il,4
02/12/93,14:40:07,228826,2,KEVIN LICKO,Franklin Park/IL.,
02/12/93,15:39:12,228827,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,6
02/12/93,17:30:46,228828,2,LARRY GLASSMAN,,7
02/12/93,20:22:27,228829,2,STEVE FARMILANT,,1
02/12/93,21:36:38,228830,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,7
02/12/93,22:15:16,228831,2,ED FOSTER,,2
02/12/93,23:20:50,228832,2,MARTIN SCHRADER,,
E#46064,82
]See you at the pizza party.  For The First Time!!!
MARTIN SCHRADER,
02/13/93,00:24:19,228833,3,JOHN WILKERSON,,14
02/13/93,00:29:37,228834,3,JOHN WILKERSON,,5
]I AM A HAM WOULD LIKE TO COMM WITH
OTHER HAMS CALL SIGN KB9FOR
JOHN WILKERSON,
02/13/93,01:48:24,228835,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
E#46065,
E#46066,8
02/13/93,07:39:31,228836,2,PETE JONES,,1
02/13/93,10:33:24,228837,2,DAVID ADAMIC,Chicago,5
02/13/93,11:02:00,228838,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
46065 02/13/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => STEVE FARMILANT: "R/CPM TO DOS BASIC CONVERTER?"
46066 02/13/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => JOHN WILKERSON: "HAMS"

 - End of summary - 

Retrieving flagged msgs: C skips, K aborts.

Msg 46065 is 09 line(s) on 02/13/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to STEVE FARMILANT re: R/CPM TO DOS BASIC CONVERTER?

 Are those CP/M programs tokenized, i.e. "binary"? Or are they ascii?
ASCII will just 'run' as they should be compatible between CP/M and
DOS.
 Hmmm, I recall writing a little program to de-tokenize CP/M basic
programs - i.e. I learned the format of the binary files, but that was -
what - maybe 10 years ago! It really WOULD be best if you could turn
them back into ASCII! Do you have any access to CP/M or a CP/M emulator
under the PC?
 No, I don't know of any compilers in the public domain.

Msg 46066 is 03 line(s) on 02/13/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to JOHN WILKERSON re: HAMS

 Feel free to leave a msg to "all" here. Not a lot of traffic, but
you have my "permission" heh to leave a msg about HAM topics. I THINK
I say that in the bulletin or welcome. Not JUST computers.
dup. chars.
>Function:?