mirror-textfiles.com/bbs/CBBS/1993/930531.ch

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CBBS(R) 4.0.3b
05/31/93 21:29:51

Y/N: want CBBS "1st time user" info?^U
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?n;ward;christensen;odraw;;fullc;piss

Logging name to disk...
You are caller 229862; next msg =46280;  364 active msgs.
Prev. call 05/23/93 @ 09:39, next msg was 46269
Recording logon for next time.
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"Mine" command checking for msgs TO you, ^K to
>Function:?dir c:log;dir c:killed;dir summary;type-20 log,ward c;or;*;short
LOG.   5 
KILLED.  70 
SUMMARY.  24 
type-50 log,ward c;or;*;shor
05/23/93,10:14:35,229786,X,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,0
]Timeout doubled (in memory, not on disk)
__Off to COMDEX as of Tuesday AM.  Back Monday after.  Will be at
Marshall & Sharon Magee's in Alpharetta GA.
WARD CHRISTENSEN,2
]__Log renamed to l9305
WARD CHRISTENSEN,
05/23/93,12:36:35,229787,2,PETE RETZBACH,,13
05/23/93,13:25:09,229788,2,CHARLES BERG,,1
05/23/93,20:06:09,229789,2,DAVID HAGEN,,1
05/23/93,20:57:49,229790,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,
E#46272,9
05/23/93,21:16:01,229791,2,BRYANT HO,,1
05/24/93,00:33:56,229792,2,ARNOLD BOYD,,3
05/24/93,01:54:40,229793,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,7
05/24/93,03:00:15,229794,2,BILL MATTSON,,1
05/24/93,10:02:26,229795,2,GERALD PINE,,2
05/24/93,11:24:34,229796,2,GEOFF SJOSTROM,Chicago/ IL,3
05/24/93,13:17:05,229797,2,DENNIS STAHL,,10
05/24/93,19:35:54,229798,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,
E#46273,14
05/24/93,20:02:49,229799,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,1
05/24/93,20:28:24,229800,2,PAUL BRAMEL,,16
05/24/93,23:59:02,229801,2,LARRY GLASSMAN,,
E#46274,12
05/25/93,00:12:05,229802,2,LARRY GLASSMAN,,
05/25/93,03:45:33,229803,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,
E#46275,7
05/25/93,09:28:18,229804,2,DENNIS STAHL,,2
05/25/93,13:25:08,229805,2,TONY ANTONUCCI,,6
05/25/93,14:29:56,229806,2,DENNIS STAHL,,1
05/25/93,14:57:31,229807,2,ROB SMITH,buffalo ny,2
05/25/93,18:10:01,229808,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,2
05/25/93,22:58:15,229809,2,BRYANT HO,,4
05/26/93,02:26:57,229810,2,ERIC BOHLMAN,,5
05/26/93,03:13:58,229811,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,2
05/26/93,04:28:15,229812,2,BERT SCHRAMM,,
>Help: A,
05/26/93,05:37:51,229813,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,2
05/26/93,11:53:49,229814,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,0
05/26/93,12:19:49,229815,2,DAVID JOHNSON,,5
05/26/93,13:43:03,229816,2,DENNIS STAHL,,1
05/26/93,14:45:41,229817,2,KEN STOX,,
E#46276,14
05/26/93,17:44:48,229818,2,GREG BELL,Evanston/Illinois,
05/26/93,21:29:56,229819,2,BILL MATTSON,,1
05/26/93,23:16:59,229820,2,MICHAEL SHARTIAG,,5
05/27/93,02:16:52,229821,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,1
05/27/93,03:16:02,229822,2,JERRY OLSEN,,
E#46277,67
05/27/93,08:39:03,229823,2,ALEX ZELL,,14
05/27/93,12:37:10,229824,2,DENNIS STAHL,,1
05/27/93,13:10:15,229825,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,1
05/27/93,14:32:13,229826,2,GARY ELFRING,,77
05/27/93,15:28:50,229827,2,BRIAN AVERY,,1
05/27/93,22:17:25,229828,2,ROY PLUM,,3
05/28/93,01:08:28,229829,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,1
05/28/93,02:01:30,229830,2,STEVE RYAN,,6
05/28/93,05:44:59,229831,2,JERRY OLSEN,,6
05/28/93,06:44:59,229832,2,DON PIVEN,,5
]DON PIVEN,
05/28/93,10:30:45,229833,2,DON BUDZINSKI,evanston/ il,2
05/28/93,12:45:34,229834,2,GERALD PINE,,2
05/28/93,14:40:04,229835,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,
E#46278,
E#46279,4
05/28/93,16:16:52,229836,2,BERNARD GOLDLUST,,1
05/29/93,08:19:24,229837,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,1
05/29/93,09:47:24,229838,2,STEVE AIDIKONIS,,2
05/29/93,10:09:20,229839,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,1
05/29/93,12:31:49,229840,2,BILL MATTSON,,1
05/29/93,14:12:17,229841,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,0
05/29/93,15:26:50,229842,2,AL VORNE,CHICAGO ILL,3
05/29/93,23:04:52,229843,2,JOHN FOCHT,chicago/ il,3
05/29/93,23:14:21,229844,2,PERRY FINK,Highland Park/ IL,1
05/30/93,01:46:08,229845,2,BILL MATTSON,,1
05/30/93,16:53:49,229846,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,4
05/30/93,17:35:26,229847,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,0
05/30/93,18:42:01,229848,2,MARTIN MILLER,,11
05/31/93,00:31:48,229849,2,MAREK NAGPAL,chciago/ il,
05/31/93,01:14:35,229850,2,ERIC BOHLMAN,,2
05/31/93,10:45:23,229851,2,AL HIGGINS,,3
05/31/93,11:03:06,229852,2,JERRY HASLETT,,7
05/31/93,12:00:04,229853,2,JOSEPH SKOM,,
>Help: SYSOP,
>Help: SYSOP,6
05/31/93,12:13:04,229854,2,LARRY GLASSMAN,,3
05/31/93,14:06:40,229855,2,ANDY SHAPIRO,,0
05/31/93,15:17:57,229856,2,BILL PRECHT,,
05/31/93,15:27:53,229857,2,RICHARD HINTON,,3
05/31/93,15:37:46,229858,2,MARK LINDEMANN,lisle/il,
05/31/93,18:26:10,229859,2,KERRY GIBSON,toledo/ ohio,2
05/31/93,18:39:13,229860,2,NORB DEMBINSKI,,3
05/31/93,21:23:41,229861,2,MURRAY ARNOW,,1
05/31/93,21:29:56,229862,2,WARD CHRISTENSEN,,
46269 05/23/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => ROY LIPSCOMB: "R/VOICE ON THE INTERNET"
46270 05/23/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => ANDY SHAPIRO: "R/DBIV?"
46271 05/23/93 WARD CHRISTENSEN => ANDY SHAPIRO: "R/DBIV?"
46272 05/23/93 MURRAY ARNOW => WARD CHRISTENSEN: "R/VOICE ON THE INTERNET"
46273 05/24/93 ANDY SHAPIRO => WARD CHRISTENSEN: "R/DBIV?"
46274 05/25/93 LARRY GLASSMAN => ALL: "VOICES ON THE INTERNET"
46275 05/25/93 NORB DEMBINSKI => WARD CHRISTENSEN: "HP 1200C DESKJET PRINTER"
46276 05/26/93 KEN STOX => ALL: "RE: VOICES ON THE INTERNET"
46277 05/27/93 JERRY OLSEN => ALL: "YOUNG AT HEART?"
46278 05/28/93 ANDY SHAPIRO => ALL: "AN INNOVATION.?"
46279 05/28/93 ANDY SHAPIRO => ALL: "NOVELL DOS 7?"

 - End of summary - 

Retrieving flagged msgs: C skips, K aborts.

Msg 46269 is 18 line(s) on 05/23/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to ROY LIPSCOMB re: R/VOICE ON THE INTERNET

 Wow, that was cool! - voice on the internet! However, I shudder to think
of the bandwidth consumption!
 I also shudder to think of the day voice becomes popular in the business
community - I have to admit it I am SO unhappy with this - I have to say
it - ASS - at work, who has a screen blanker on his PC, that bounces a
padlock around the screen (as many do) but his "beeps" and "peeps" off
the screen borders, like an old pong game. IMAGINE, a NOISY PC accessory
that only engages when you are AWAY FROM YOUR DESK.
 Another guy stuck some kind of OS/2 multi-media thingie in, and when he
does a shutdown, it plays taps. Well, it tries. It is grainy, slow,
AGONIZINGLY slow, . I'd have thought he would remove it after the "fun"
of hearing it once or twice, but NO.
 BY WHICH I MEAN: imagine the day when many people are TALKING to their
PCs - either voice annotating things, or doing voice input, etc. I don't
think I could take it. YET, with carpal tunnel or pinched nerves or
whatever I have (going to the doctor tomorrow) I may be the first one to
really NEEDS voice input to continue some degree of my participation in
some PC activities.

Msg 46270 is 30 line(s) on 05/23/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to ANDY SHAPIRO re: R/DBIV?

 Interesting hearing what you did. You might, if you consider enhancing,
add my idea of stepping thru for clearing checks (and deposits - I get 'em
electronically at work, and I DO want to manually check them off to make
sure I got everything - though of course the bank is going to be "more"
right than I).
 Also, why do you go out to supercalc for balancing? I found it easy
enough to do in xBase.
 4K? Wow! Yes, the allocation unit problem is just as appropriate for
the PC as for CP/M. As to combining procedure file, the ONE thing I
really like about FoxPRO (which I do NOT and never HAVE used though I
bought it!) is that it can have in-line procedures in the same file as
the mainline, so you can finally have a single, structured .PRG file. I
found the limitation of a single procedure file very confining - at work
I use it for all my 3270 API stuff, meaning ANY application I do which makes
use of the APIs can't have procedure files (not a REAL problem because I'm
writing all from scratch).
 One thing I do (in almost any language) is to make HEAVY use of STATEs -
i.e. the overall program is a big loop, and I have a single variable called
a 'state' that I change based upon what I want to do. This is how to put
gotos into goto-less programming - i.e. the state indicates which part to
execute, virtually identical to doing a "goto" that section. Very flexible.
 My check clearing loop (which you go out to SC4 to do) is only a dozen
lines or so - "if a deposit; if cleared then add to balance;" "if a check;
if cleared then subtract from balance", and just do this is a "while .not.
eof()" loop. I do fancier things like changing screen colors based upon
each line processed (once I find the line with the 00 balance indicating
the oldest modified entry (such as the oldest check cleared in this pass).
 I am still AMAZED at how tight you wrote this! My checkbook DBF is 44K
alone - but then again I would LOVE it to go back FOREVER - for example.
<cont'd>

Msg 46271 is 30 line(s) on 05/23/93 from WARD CHRISTENSEN
to ANDY SHAPIRO re: R/DBIV?

 <checkbook program in dbase, continued>
 Did I mention about using my program to save me $20? Master Card hit me
with a $20 annual fee this January, in spite of it being a "no annual fee"
card. Reason is, if you have NO interest (I believe in paying promptly, and
not going beyond my means) in a year, then the "fine print" sez they can
hit you for a processing fee.
 SO, what I did was go thru my checks.DBF file, back 3 years, totalling
every check I ever wrote to this specific bank. I then wrote a letter saying
that I chose them because of no annual fee, that I had lots of offers for
other cards (and in fact had just gotten a Gold no-fee Visa card), and
stating the many K$ I'd spent in these 3 years, and did they want to lose
me over a little $20 fee? Well, I fully expected to get another bill,
WITH INTEREST, in the mail, which I'd probably pay, then turn in the card.
Instead, I got a ZERO balance bill the next month, and have switched to
using the M.C. over the Visa (though being the (?? anal retentive ??) type,
I hate both bills - with their stupid advertising and "tear off flap before
mailing" type of ad- for as dumb a thing as "Thighmaster"). Actually I
(with serious topic drift here) got the Visa because THEY were from a small
bank with NO advertising and a nice simple (read: user friendly) envelope,
from Gary Wheaton bank. Well, 3 months later 1st Card of Chicago bought
'em and I'm back to the junky ads and 'tear off flap' silly envelopes. heh.
 -
 Do you write much xBase? I have a 3270 terminal emulator in it at work,
a publication order system, and at home, a backup-tape logging system,
and a HUGE and complex VCR log - each tape assigned a 3-digit code, with
quick-search (type one letter, it positions to and shows the first match,
hit the 2nd letter, it goes down to the 2-letter match, etc). Ability to
compute durations, elapsed times, search for artists, titles, sort 3 ways,
etc. A VERY VERY comprehensive VCR library, including hooks to Smart Label
printer, etc. I really like xBase.

Msg 46272 is 05 line(s) on 05/23/93 from MURRAY ARNOW
to WARD CHRISTENSEN re: R/VOICE ON THE INTERNET

Voice e-mail is here. Where I currently work, the Mac is the computer of
choice. Two weeks ago MacMail was upgraded and now supports voice mail
attachments. Right now it is a novelty and not used by most people on the
[D
Anyway its here, and I suppose I'll end up using it out of forced necessity.

Msg 46273 is 28 line(s) on 05/24/93 from ANDY SHAPIRO
to WARD CHRISTENSEN re: R/DBIV?

Wow! I like your check system (fun and profits)! I do like going out
to SC4 just because (a) I can do it, and (b) I feel a little more
comfortable with the math there. Remember, this checkbook program
started out as a very quick hack to replace what I think of as an
ugly bit of commercial software. My major consideration was not to
have to re-enter all the stuff already in the .dbf file. Happily,
the checks were stored in dBase compatible form, so that was simple.

I've done xBase stuff on and off since the days of my Kaypro 2'84 and
dBase II. I guess I really got into it when some people at work
(then the American Bar Foundation) needed a couple of HUGE data entry
systems for projects they were doing. I looked at the manuals and
figured I could probably do it. In one case, they had so much
information that for each record I needed to string together five (5)
DBIII+ files. Yep,er 640 distinct fields for each record. So,
I learned. I never had my own copy of dBase III, etc, though. A couple of
months back, I happened across a copy of DBXL 1.3, a III+ clone (the
rights have been sold to Borland) for $20 at a show, so I bought it.

One thing I did learn, BTW, is that (at least in DBXL) the main .PRG
file can also be opened as the procedure file, so you can have the
main program and subroutines all in one box. I like your idea of 'state,'
though - I'll have to consider how that can work.

Do you have an internet or bitnet address? If so, I'll send you the
code to my checkbook if you send me yours. It'd be fun to see if your
Foxbase code would run under DBXL, and vice-versa. You can reach me
at marchana@gar.union.edu -or- marchana@union.bitnet.

Msg 46274 is 10 line(s) on 05/25/93 from LARRY GLASSMAN
to ALL re: VOICES ON THE INTERNET

I have been using a software package on my Sun workstation allowing voice
across the network for some time. The package is called Radio, and is
part of the standard GNU distribution tape for UNIX. The program would
take sound from the little microphone connected to my workstation, and
anybody who ran the listening program, would have the sound come out of
the speaker connected to their workstation.
I used this successfully on the company's internal wide area network between
Chicago and London. The delay was mininal. These machines were only
connected to a standard 10 megabit per second ethernet. It did not use
very much of the band width either. Interesting technology.

Msg 46275 is 10 line(s) on 05/25/93 from NORB DEMBINSKI
to WARD CHRISTENSEN re: HP 1200C DESKJET PRINTER

Ward:

 Have you had a chance to review the specs on the new HP
1200C DeskJet Color printer? This seems to be what I am looking
to attach to my system. I was wondering what the largest size
paper this machine is capable of handling. The 1200C will also come
in a postscript version, which is the model I would be interested in
obtaining.

Norb Dembinski

Msg 46276 is 16 line(s) on 05/26/93 from KEN STOX
to ALL re: RE: VOICES ON THE INTERNET

Having tinkered with this for some time, I'd thought I would drop some
comments:
1) On the newer SUN's, you don't even need a software package to do
 a "radio" broadcast, you can just "cat /dev/audio" to a pipe to
 a remote shell that cats stdin to /dev/audio.
2) Although a one way brodcast will probably work well enough, two way
 conversation is very difficult due to network delays. It will probably
 work acceptably between two very well connected sites, but since most
 sites don't have a T1 coming into their routers, speech gets broken
 too much.
3) At this time, there just is not enough bandwidth, and each speech
 channel will probably eat up 64Kbps.
However, it is obvious that the internet is becoming the modern phone
system in many ways. I wonder how much longer it can exist in it's
current state before it evolves into a new beast under commercial
control.

Msg 46277 is 06 line(s) on 05/27/93 from JERRY OLSEN
to ALL re: YOUNG AT HEART?

I need to interview a couple of young sysops (or former sysops) for a
magazine piece.under 16 years old is ideal; under 18 may work too.
They needn't necessarily be local to Chicago. Any help would be
appreciated. Alternately, they can contact me at (312) 939-3300 and, if
I'm not available, leave a message. Time is tight on this one, and I'd
like to round up sources next Monday if not earlier. Thanks.

Msg 46278 is 23 line(s) on 05/28/93 from ANDY SHAPIRO
to ALL re: AN INNOVATION.?

Here's my innovation of the week - the monocable! Earlier today I
bought a little clip-on trackball (PC Accessories, the generic red,
white & blue box brand) and put it on the right side of my desktop
keyboard. Since it has a very short cord (1' or so), I bought a monitor
extension cable (9 pin) and wound it into the coiled keyboard cable.
Behold! One wire, two devices!

Actually, the little trackball is kind of cute. It's the size of a
MicroSoft or Logitech portable trackball, but the bracket clips it on
flat, so that the critter is at the same angle as the keyboard. It has
three buttons arranged around the ball, and one LED. When you press
either the right or left buttons and the bottom button at the same time,
the right or left button locks and the LED lights. Pressing the bottom
button again releases your selection. It works well in the graphics
programs I use, though I must admit that the action isn't as nice as my
Trackman (which now goes to my 4-year-old, who finds rodents as
frustrating as I do). Oh - at CompUSA, the PC Accessories Mini
Trackball was less than half the price of its Logitech and Microsoft
brethren.

Has anyone else here strung multiple cables together to eliminate
desktop messiness? I'm curious.


Msg 46279 is 04 line(s) on 05/28/93 from ANDY SHAPIRO
to ALL re: NOVELL DOS 7?

I've heard that this is beta testing NOW, and that it is a command-
driven OS that supports true multi-tasking. Anyone seen it? Heard
about it? If you have a (non-OEM'd) copy of DR-DOS 6, have you
heard any noises? etc.
dup. chars.
>Function:?